Dominionism
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23-09-2011, 11:39 AM
RE: Dominionism
(23-09-2011 07:20 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, BnW.

Don't get me wrong. I'd vomit if Perry got elected... or any Republican in their current far-right incarnation for that matter. But he can no more turn the US into a theocracy than he can ban free speech or mothball all American news outlets. It's just not going to happen.

I guess I agree with that. Of course, we are living in a world where people in middle America are passing amendments to their state constitutions to protect them from having Sharia law imposed upon them. When you have that kind of fear-mongering and stupidity in action, and people really believe it, you run the risk of all kinds of lunacy. But, yeah, I guess no one is turning the US into a theocracy any time soon.

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23-09-2011, 12:38 PM
RE: Dominionism
(23-09-2011 11:39 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(23-09-2011 07:20 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, BnW.

Don't get me wrong. I'd vomit if Perry got elected... or any Republican in their current far-right incarnation for that matter. But he can no more turn the US into a theocracy than he can ban free speech or mothball all American news outlets. It's just not going to happen.

I guess I agree with that. Of course, we are living in a world where people in middle America are passing amendments to their state constitutions to protect them from having Sharia law imposed upon them. When you have that kind of fear-mongering and stupidity in action, and people really believe it, you run the risk of all kinds of lunacy. But, yeah, I guess no one is turning the US into a theocracy any time soon.

BnW and Ghost:

And don't forget what American extreme right groups like The Family can do, not just here, but abroad. Like what happened, and continues to happen, in Uganda with the anti-gay sentiment and attempt and legislation?

These groups are not as benign as they seem. I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but at the very least, information about our politcians' ties with extreme fringe groups needs to be reported on in the mainstream media. and uh...I'm not under any illusion that it will happen...but it still needs to. Tongue

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.

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23-09-2011, 12:55 PM
RE: Dominionism
(23-09-2011 11:19 AM)17thknight Wrote:  You fail to recognize fully how our system works. Even having 1 lunatic in power does nothing. You could elect a lunatic president and it would still be absurdly difficult for them to have any real sway on matters.

I fail, utterly, to comprehend your system and whether it works. 1 lunatic was passed a couple of Hoovers ago and the real sway has been felt from elementary classroom, through air-terminals to the Euphrates.

Quote: You're far too reactionary and fearful of things that simply don't occur.

What a relief! Shall i pass the glad tidings on to the inmates of Guantanamo, or will you?

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23-09-2011, 02:48 PM
RE: Dominionism
(23-09-2011 12:55 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  What a relief! Shall i pass the glad tidings on to the inmates of Guantanamo, or will you?

Quite frankly, I'm glad Guantanamo exists. A prison camp is not a sign of a "lunatic" president. After all, both parties have now held power and neither has deigned to close it down. Nor will they. You need somewhere to detain people during wartime, bucko. Of course, there's always rendition (which both sides have also continued, as it is necessary). You're grasping at political strawmen, not reality.

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25-09-2011, 01:49 PM
 
RE: Dominionism
I'm new to the forum, having signed up after this thread was captured in my daily Google feed on Dominionism. I haven't listened to the podcast Zaika mentioned in her original post, but I have studied Dominionism for some time. No one should dismiss it as a fringe movement. Of course it is not "mainstream," and it's unlikely that its hard-core advocates will ever reach positions of political power. However, its precepts and concepts are extraordinarily influential within evangelical circles, and about 30% of all Americans identify themselves as evangelicals, so the movement is important. Those influenced by Dominionism usually don't even know the term. And whenever the press shines a light on Dominioinism, its main proponents, who are otherwise busily inculcating evangelicals with their message, go into defensive mode and deny the movement even exists. This happened most recently after a piece appeared in The Daily Beast (on both Dominionism and its cousin, Christian Reconstructionism) and
Dominionism was discussed in a profile of Bachmann in The New Yorker.

Dominionism at its most extreme would impose a theocracy, but the core of the movement is less extreme but, for that reason, more insidious. You've no doubt heard right wing politicians argue that the USA was founded as a Christian nation, that "Godly" people should hold office, that the USA needs to "return to God." These are Dominionist catch-phrases. At its core, Dominionism is the belief that God gave Christians -- but only the "right" Christians -- a directive in Genesis 1: 24-28 to exercise dominion over all the earth, that these "right" Christians are obligated to fight by whatever means necessary (which include, specifically, lying about their own intentions) to enable their kind to occupy positions of power not only in government (although that is paramount), but also the press, entertainment, education, and other important parts of society, with the ultimate goal of making everyone in the USA and ultimately in the world into this "right" type of Christian (through persuasion if possible but through coercion if necessary) in order to prepare the world for the second coming of Christ. Sound nutty? I assure you that both Bachmann and Perry subscribe to this core of Dominionism; it shines through in their statements, if you are attuned to the code words of Dominionism. And, at Perry's big prayer meeting in a stadium back in July or early August, almost every major speaker was a professed Dominionist, at least insofar as the core belief of Dominionism is concerned. The mainstream press has been intimidated, to some extent, away from much discussion of Dominionism (in addition to being woefully ignorant of it), and after the two pieces that did appear (The Daily Beast, The New Yorker) the lid has been put on the language of Dominionism within the evangelical community. So, they are not going to trip themselves up, i.e., you won't hear much if anything from now to the election in 2012 that will sound startling. But if you research what they've already said, and especially among themselves, it is indeed startling -- as Zaika said about the podcast she listened to.

And what is the "right" type of Christian? It's the modern evangelical. Go to the National Association of Evangelicals and look up the statement of faith, which has seven principles. If you don't subscribe to those principles you are toast in a Dominionist world. Catholics are toast, Jews are toast, even mainstream Protestants are toast. Muslims and atheists are burned toast.
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26-09-2011, 10:10 AM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2011 10:13 AM by defacto7.)
RE: Dominionism
(25-09-2011 01:49 PM)inBA Wrote:  I'm new to the forum, having signed up after this thread was captured in my daily Google feed on Dominionism. I haven't listened to the podcast Zaika mentioned in her original post, but I have studied Dominionism for some time. No one should dismiss it as a fringe movement. Of course it is not "mainstream," and it's unlikely that its hard-core advocates will ever reach positions of political power. However, its precepts and concepts are extraordinarily influential within evangelical circles, and about 30% of all Americans identify themselves as evangelicals, so the movement is important. Those influenced by Dominionism usually don't even know the term. And whenever the press shines a light on Dominioinism, its main proponents, who are otherwise busily inculcating evangelicals with their message, go into defensive mode and deny the movement even exists. This happened most recently after a piece appeared in The Daily Beast (on both Dominionism and its cousin, Christian Reconstructionism) and
Dominionism was discussed in a profile of Bachmann in The New Yorker.

Dominionism at its most extreme would impose a theocracy, but the core of the movement is less extreme but, for that reason, more insidious. You've no doubt heard right wing politicians argue that the USA was founded as a Christian nation, that "Godly" people should hold office, that the USA needs to "return to God." These are Dominionist catch-phrases. At its core, Dominionism is the belief that God gave Christians -- but only the "right" Christians -- a directive in Genesis 1: 24-28 to exercise dominion over all the earth, that these "right" Christians are obligated to fight by whatever means necessary (which include, specifically, lying about their own intentions) to enable their kind to occupy positions of power not only in government (although that is paramount), but also the press, entertainment, education, and other important parts of society, with the ultimate goal of making everyone in the USA and ultimately in the world into this "right" type of Christian (through persuasion if possible but through coercion if necessary) in order to prepare the world for the second coming of Christ. Sound nutty? I assure you that both Bachmann and Perry subscribe to this core of Dominionism; it shines through in their statements, if you are attuned to the code words of Dominionism. And, at Perry's big prayer meeting in a stadium back in July or early August, almost every major speaker was a professed Dominionist, at least insofar as the core belief of Dominionism is concerned. The mainstream press has been intimidated, to some extent, away from much discussion of Dominionism (in addition to being woefully ignorant of it), and after the two pieces that did appear (The Daily Beast, The New Yorker) the lid has been put on the language of Dominionism within the evangelical community. So, they are not going to trip themselves up, i.e., you won't hear much if anything from now to the election in 2012 that will sound startling. But if you research what they've already said, and especially among themselves, it is indeed startling -- as Zaika said about the podcast she listened to.

And what is the "right" type of Christian? It's the modern evangelical. Go to the National Association of Evangelicals and look up the statement of faith, which has seven principles. If you don't subscribe to those principles you are toast in a Dominionist world. Catholics are toast, Jews are toast, even mainstream Protestants are toast. Muslims and atheists are burned toast.

You couldn't be more right on, inBA. How many times have I heard the term "spiritual warfare" lately? Too many times. The idea of spiritual warfare is a biblical one and I remember it being preached from pulpits throughout my childhood. But up until recently such biblical spouting was confined to the pulpit and both the preacher and the flock took it as simply a rage of discontent with the status quo looking forward to the second coming of Christ. Now, it has become a force to wage a coup on a government to set up a platform for Christian dominance at any cost.

This is not some conspiracy theory, guys. It's for real. The group is relatively small but has become more organized in the last few years and is nothing to scoff at. It's dangerous. I still believe the majority of people in America are somewhat above this but if the Dominionists gain control in any political forum they will continue to push the limits; their religious fervor will guide them. Do those of us who believe in separation of church and state have the same "fervor"? If they continue to gain politically, it won't be because they're smart, it will be because we have been weak.

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26-09-2011, 10:41 AM
RE: Dominionism
inBA,

Thank you for your post and your thoughts! From these few things I've read/heard, it doesn't sound like, as you said, the core of their beliefs are fringe. I mean, I went to a mainline church, and this sort of talk was normal.

Welcome to the forums and I look forward to reading more from you. Smile

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.

- Carl Sagan
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26-09-2011, 04:29 PM
RE: Dominionism
Just joined the forum today and this is my first post. I must say that the level of discussion and debate here is very impressive and I feel fortunate to have discovered this forum.

My comment on Dominionism: Do not under estimate this movement. If you have read the books The Family Here and C Street Here (both by Jeff Sharlet) you will find that there are many politcally powerful and wealthy people that are sympathetic with the goals of Dominionism, and active working for them.

"Some...say religion makes people happy. So does laughing gas. So does whiskey."
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26-09-2011, 04:31 PM
RE: Dominionism
(26-09-2011 10:10 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  I still believe the majority of people in America are somewhat above this but if the Dominionists gain control in any political forum they will continue to push the limits; their religious fervor will guide them. Do those of us who believe in separation of church and state have the same "fervor"? If they continue to gain politically, it won't be because they're smart, it will be because we have been weak.

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

--W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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26-09-2011, 05:03 PM
RE: Dominionism
(26-09-2011 04:31 PM)cufflink Wrote:  The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

--W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming

Perfect!

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