Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
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22-02-2016, 08:34 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
On the subject of authors, anyone who smack-talks Terry Pratchett in my presence had best prepare for sheer, geek-fueled hell.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-02-2016, 08:43 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
(21-02-2016 09:37 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  One thing I have noticed as an adult having adult conversations about everything under the sun... people do NOT like their POV, opinions, beliefs or ideals challenged. It is not just a religious thing.

What I would like to know is what are your "hot button" sincerely held positions that you refuse to yield to different ideas on? You know, the POV you argue continually and consistently and can't wait to proffer your opinion on. We all have them, do you know them, recognize them and do you own your own stubbornness?

This is a bit tongue-n-cheek but also not really.

It's an exercise in personal flexibility. Are you up for it? Smile

I don't know if there is a single topic on which I am inflexible. But I should also note that I am distinguishing topical discussions from individual incidents, which I think we are all stubborn to a fault (there is a reason we argue with our significant others after all. Yes, I did say I would do the dishes later but later can be tomorrow too dammit!)

But there are topics that when I discuss with certain people, I will be far more stubborn about. For instance, as someone who studies and researches in geology (geochemistry, paleontology, paleoclimatology, mass extinctions, and environmental change in general), there are several topics within science that if I am conversing about with an amateur, I am far less likely to be open minded about their opinions.

I will gladly discuss and debate climate change and the anthropogenic effect, but a climate denier isn't going to find me easily swayed by their comprehensive knowledge of denialist blog posts, nor are they likely to find the conversation with me all that enjoyable if they only intend to push propaganda on me as I give them scientific knowledge at no charge.

I will also gladly discuss/debate:
evolution, but if you are a creationist then you may want to think twice

the age of the Earth, but if believe the Earth is <10,000 years old then you might want to do so with a pair of earmuffs affixed to your head to protect your pea-sized brain





And then there are a variety of topics I will gladly discuss as a fellow amateur to a point. And that point is typically dictated by the other party. If they simply dismiss me, then I will dismiss them. If they resort to insults, I will disengage or give it back to them. This happens on a lot of topics (gun control, women's reproductive rights, religion in politics, religion in general, etc).

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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22-02-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
(21-02-2016 11:07 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(21-02-2016 10:32 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Yeah, I was wondering how I was supposed to watch tv blind but hey.... I'm always willing to try new shit. Smile

Well. For a couple of years in the mid-'90s, I taught at a Waldorf school. They did not want the kids to watch TV (among other things). I personally agree with that, but not for the same reason(s). The teachers who were trained in Germany would put a towel on the TV screen and just listen to the audio. You can't make this shit up. I can't be bothered to look this up, but there is evidence that watching TV lowers your metabolic rate below what would be required to read a book. Or, vice-versa... Huh

What in the world were they trying to accomplish?

Post-modernist, Chopra-inspired deepity in 3...2...1...

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-02-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
(21-02-2016 09:39 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I am open to any opinion being changed if I am wrong. Who am I to say I am always right?

what this guy said. except that batman is the greatest superhero ever and really the only one worth giving a shit about. oh and superman is extremely lame, largely because hes too overpowered.
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22-02-2016, 10:38 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
(21-02-2016 09:37 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  One thing I have noticed as an adult having adult conversations about everything under the sun... people do NOT like their POV, opinions, beliefs or ideals challenged. It is not just a religious thing.

What I would like to know is what are your "hot button" sincerely held positions that you refuse to yield to different ideas on? You know, the POV you argue continually and consistently and can't wait to proffer your opinion on. We all have them, do you know them, recognize them and do you own your own stubbornness?

This is a bit tongue-n-cheek but also not really.

It's an exercise in personal flexibility. Are you up for it? Smile

My example is that looking out my window I can see a scar on the side of the mountain which hovers over us here in Puerto Plata Dominican Republic. Yes I have several pics of it, but not the knowledge how to lift them off my computer and post them. But the Americans here all say that it was caused by mud slides in 1993, but the people who have lived here all their lives tell about an airplane taking off from the local airport in 1992 and hitting the mountain. Which of the two it is I don't know for sure, but prefer to believe the people who have been here all their lives.
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22-02-2016, 10:44 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
(21-02-2016 11:07 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(21-02-2016 10:32 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Yeah, I was wondering how I was supposed to watch tv blind but hey.... I'm always willing to try new shit. Smile

Well. For a couple of years in the mid-'90s, I taught at a Waldorf school. They did not want the kids to watch TV (among other things). I personally agree with that, but not for the same reason(s). The teachers who were trained in Germany would put a towel on the TV screen and just listen to the audio. You can't make this shit up. I can't be bothered to look this up, but there is evidence that watching TV lowers your metabolic rate below what would be required to read a book. Or, vice-versa... Huh

Naw, that is what smoking dope does.
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22-02-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
also, the warhammer 40k universe would annihilate both the star wars and star trek universes combined. not even open for debate.
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22-02-2016, 11:01 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
I tend to use the term "belief" to describe stances on issues which can only truly be considered matters of opinion. For example it is my "belief" that I prefer the music of Pink Floyd to the music of Led Zeppelin. Does that mean I like every song from Pink Floyd better than every song from Zep? Nope - it just means on any given day I'd be more inclined to listen to Floyd. You could show me a scientific analysis of lead guitarists which might indicate that Jimmy Page can play faster than David Gilmour, or that Robert Plant has a wider vocal range, but there are intangible qualities in something like comparing two bands as well; and those are usually what wins the day with me. Not record sales or chart position or a mathematical analysis of a band's performance, but rather does it stir me or not?

Venturing out of the realm of opinion into concepts based in fact I TRY not to attach ego to the things I believe are true. Show me new evidence that some concept I espouse is incorrect and I'll consider it a favor you're doing in reducing my ignorance.
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22-02-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
(22-02-2016 10:38 AM)DerFish Wrote:  
(21-02-2016 09:37 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  One thing I have noticed as an adult having adult conversations about everything under the sun... people do NOT like their POV, opinions, beliefs or ideals challenged. It is not just a religious thing.

What I would like to know is what are your "hot button" sincerely held positions that you refuse to yield to different ideas on? You know, the POV you argue continually and consistently and can't wait to proffer your opinion on. We all have them, do you know them, recognize them and do you own your own stubbornness?

This is a bit tongue-n-cheek but also not really.

It's an exercise in personal flexibility. Are you up for it? Smile

My example is that looking out my window I can see a scar on the side of the mountain which hovers over us here in Puerto Plata Dominican Republic. Yes I have several pics of it, but not the knowledge how to lift them off my computer and post them. But the Americans here all say that it was caused by mud slides in 1993, but the people who have lived here all their lives tell about an airplane taking off from the local airport in 1992 and hitting the mountain. Which of the two it is I don't know for sure, but prefer to believe the people who have been here all their lives.

Why not both? Consider

It is a fact that a plane crashed into a mountain November 15, 1992. Did it precipitate mudslides?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-02-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: Don't Challenge My Sincerely Held Beliefs: Not Just A Religion Problem
(22-02-2016 10:46 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  also, the warhammer 40k universe would annihilate both the star wars and star trek universes combined. not even open for debate.

eh. It is assuredly much darker than the other two settings. I haven't read many of the novels, but I am familiar with the background from the miniatures games. Not sure where I would rank it. Star Trek is too happy, Star Wars isn't sci-fi and 40K? Depends on my mood I guess. Worthy of discussion though.

That could be it's own thread: The top five sci-fi settings.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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