Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
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16-02-2016, 09:33 AM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2016 10:53 AM by carol.)
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
(16-02-2016 08:47 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 08:22 AM)carol Wrote:  Dude, do you even read your own thread? People have posted research, including myself...

Research?????

Ya know -- when somebody posts a dozen "sources" at once - it's a pretty sure indication they cut and pasted it from somewhere --- and usually someplace with an agenda.....

Let's look at your "research"....

The very first one --- Let's see who wrote it --------------




Stanley Coren is the author of many books including: Born to Bark; Do Dogs Dream? The Modern Dog; Why Do Dogs Have Wet Noses? The Pawprints of History; How Dogs Think; How To Speak Dog; Why We Love the Dogs We Do; What Do Dogs Know? The Intelligence of Dogs; Why Does My Dog Act That Way? Understanding Dogs for Dummies; Sleep Thieves; The Left-hander Syndrome (link is external)




If you don't see a pattern there -- I don't know what to say.

When you put up stuff by people with an agenda -- and in the case of Mr. Stanley Coren -- that agenda is pandering to animal lovers and selling books --- the "research" tends to take on a bit of a slant........................................
Did you bother to look up the author of the first link?I have provided links for you:
The author of the first ink:
http://psych.ubc.ca/persons/stanley-coren/
http://www.stanleycoren.com/bio.htm


Come on, is that the best you can do?
You do realize it is appropriate for you to actually read the links provided, not just one?
You do realize that it is up to you to post current research that proves your claim?
You do realize that you are using a non-scientific way to try to invalidate this work?
You do realize that cutting/pasting is the only way to provide you some serious research we can discuss, so you can read it yourself?
You seem to be saying "I think this author is biased, therefore the work is not true" on the first link...and did not look into the author, who is actually well respected in his field...
How biased is that?
Then you simply do not refute any other link provided...
And in the mean time you do not post any research which proves your claim?
Do you 'science' at all? i mean biological science...
Which, BTW is my agenda..
just plain research because I find it interesting and also because I have a passion for ( and have studied in college) neurological biology...

I must say I find irony in this, based upon your previous posts..
I have many links with bigger teeth to them if you are up to the science...I did post the easier ones at the top...but there are many more ..

Start to prove your idea that dogs do not exhibit signs of emotions and do not have the same brain structure/neurobio we have...I welcome your research but find it very unlikely you will find anything that is current that would promote your viewpoint.

But first, please discredit all of my sources, if you are able to provide proof that this research is inept and disproven...I think you will be unable to do so.
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16-02-2016, 09:47 AM
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
(16-02-2016 09:33 AM)carol Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 08:47 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Research?????

Ya know -- when somebody posts a dozen "sources" at once - it's a pretty sure indication they cut and pasted it from somewhere --- and usually someplace with an agenda.....

Let's look at your "research"....

The very first one --- Let's see who wrote it --------------




Stanley Coren is the author of many books including: Born to Bark; Do Dogs Dream? The Modern Dog; Why Do Dogs Have Wet Noses? The Pawprints of History; How Dogs Think; How To Speak Dog; Why We Love the Dogs We Do; What Do Dogs Know? The Intelligence of Dogs; Why Does My Dog Act That Way? Understanding Dogs for Dummies; Sleep Thieves; The Left-hander Syndrome (link is external)




If you don't see a pattern there -- I don't know what to say.

When you put up stuff by people with an agenda -- and in the case of Mr. Stanley Coren -- that agenda is pandering to animal lovers and selling books --- the "research" tends to take on a bit of a slant........................................

Come on, is that the best you can do?
You do realize it is appropriate for you to actually read the links provided, not just one?
You do realize that it is up to you to post current research that proves your claim?
You do realize that you are using a non-scientific way to try to invalidate this work?
You do realize that cutting/pasting is the only way to provide you some serious research we can discuss, so you can read it yourself?
You seem to be saying "I think this author is biased, therefore the work is not true" on the first link...
How biased is that?
Then you simply do not refute any other link provided...
And in the mean time you do not post any research which proves your claim?
Do you 'science' at all? i mean biological science...
Which, BTW is my agenda..
just plain research because I find it interesting and also because I have a passion for ( and have studied in college) neurological biology...

I must say I find irony in this, based upon your previous posts..
I have many with bigger teeth to them if you are up to the science...I did post the easier ones at the top...but there are many more ..

Start to prove your idea that dogs do not exhibit signs of emotions and have the same brain structure/neurobio we have...I welcome your research but find it very unlikely you will find anything that is current that would promote your viewpoint.

But first, please discredit all of my sources, if you are able to provide proof that this research is inept and disproven...I think you will be unable to do so.

I'm guessing he doesn't have any research -- just his personal opinions and biases. Everybody "has an agenda", but in his case, that's all he has.

Tongue
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16-02-2016, 09:56 AM
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
(16-02-2016 08:47 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 08:22 AM)carol Wrote:  Dude, do you even read your own thread? People have posted research, including myself...

Research?????

Ya know -- when somebody posts a dozen "sources" at once - it's a pretty sure indication they cut and pasted it from somewhere --- and usually someplace with an agenda.....

Let's look at your "research"....

The very first one --- Let's see who wrote it --------------


Stanley Coren is the author of many books including: Born to Bark; Do Dogs Dream? The Modern Dog; Why Do Dogs Have Wet Noses? The Pawprints of History; How Dogs Think; How To Speak Dog; Why We Love the Dogs We Do; What Do Dogs Know? The Intelligence of Dogs; Why Does My Dog Act That Way? Understanding Dogs for Dummies; Sleep Thieves; The Left-hander Syndrome (link is external)


If you don't see a pattern there -- I don't know what to say.

When you put up stuff by people with an agenda -- and in the case of Mr. Stanley Coren -- that agenda is pandering to animal lovers and selling books --- the "research" tends to take on a bit of a slant........................................

Don't be a dick biker.

The problem you have is with the word adoption. Here's why shelters refer to it that way. They aren't discount pet stores. They don't have to sell you dog or cat just because you want one.

You fill out paperwork about your life. If you work 12 hours a day and live in a studio apartment, they will not let you bring home a dog that requires lots of exercise and space to run.

If you say that you plan on bringing the dog to doggie daycare, then they want to know the name of the place and if you've already made arrangements with them.

They can even force you to take the pet to obedience school.

If they still feel that you're out of your depth, they simply won't let you take a dog home.

If you want to avoid that trouble then get a dog from a breeder (although they might question you too), but at least that way you'll walk away with a bill of sale and not adoption papers. Or answer the puppy ad on Craig's list.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-02-2016, 10:10 AM
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
This thread is evolving into a two headed beast.

First head: The use of the word "adoption" in relation to pet ownership
Second head: The capacity of pets (mostly dogs) to feel love and emotion

To address the first:
I have heard the phrase "adopt a pet" used across a wide spectrum of United States culture. Pet shelters, breeders, pet owners, news & entertainment media. I know multiple people who were adopted and have never heard anyone take issue with the usage.

As far as I can see, the usage is both grammatically and linguistically correct and in use on a daily basis throughout our society. Demographic groups that could potentially take offense (i.e. human adoptees/adopters) do not seem to be offended by this. So while you are free to be offended, I don't think you'll find much support.

To address the second:
No one disputes that dogs (as the example used) are not as intelligent as humans. Although I have read news items that claimed some dogs tested to be as smart as a human toddler, say 3-5 years.

Now, recalling your post regarding this:
(15-02-2016 11:07 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Simply being a mammal doesn't make an animal capable of human traits...........

When you find me a wolverine that can do differential calculus, I'll change my mind on that...........

And when you can get your dog to say clearly "I love you, not simply because you feed me, but because you're just a really great gal" -- I'll believe your dog capable of love...............

On this, you are both right and wrong.

No, a dog cannot verbally express emotions. (Ok, I have to be a nitpicker and point out dogs like Mischa, of youtube fame, who parrots some human words and phrases.) However dogs and other animals are capable of expressing affection and other emotions.

Do the emotions animals exhibit reach human levels? That is not as easy to say. Animals have been taught to communicate. Octopi, gorillas, chimps, dolphins, parrots, elephants, all have proven to be startlingly intelligent. Are the differences of language and intelligence great enough to prevent actual love? Are the emotional similarities strong enough to allow it? I think the question is still unanswered.

While you are correct in noting the fallacy of anthropomorphization, I think you are too quick to discount the evidence provided.

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16-02-2016, 10:30 AM
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
(16-02-2016 09:33 AM)carol Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 08:47 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Research?????

Ya know -- when somebody posts a dozen "sources" at once - it's a pretty sure indication they cut and pasted it from somewhere --- and usually someplace with an agenda.....

Let's look at your "research"....

The very first one --- Let's see who wrote it --------------




Stanley Coren is the author of many books including: Born to Bark; Do Dogs Dream? The Modern Dog; Why Do Dogs Have Wet Noses? The Pawprints of History; How Dogs Think; How To Speak Dog; Why We Love the Dogs We Do; What Do Dogs Know? The Intelligence of Dogs; Why Does My Dog Act That Way? Understanding Dogs for Dummies; Sleep Thieves; The Left-hander Syndrome (link is external)




If you don't see a pattern there -- I don't know what to say.

When you put up stuff by people with an agenda -- and in the case of Mr. Stanley Coren -- that agenda is pandering to animal lovers and selling books --- the "research" tends to take on a bit of a slant........................................

Come on, is that the best you can do?
You do realize it is appropriate for you to actually read the links provided, not just one?
You do realize that it is up to you to post current research that proves your claim?
You do realize that you are using a non-scientific way to try to invalidate this work?
You do realize that cutting/pasting is the only way to provide you some serious research we can discuss, so you can read it yourself?
You seem to be saying "I think this author is biased, therefore the work is not true" on the first link...
How biased is that?
Then you simply do not refute any other link provided...
And in the mean time you do not post any research which proves your claim?
Do you 'science' at all? i mean biological science...
Which, BTW is my agenda..
just plain research because I find it interesting and also because I have a passion for ( and have studied in college) neurological biology...

I must say I find irony in this, based upon your previous posts..
I have many with bigger teeth to them if you are up to the science...I did post the easier ones at the top...but there are many more ..

Start to prove your idea that dogs do not exhibit signs of emotions and have the same brain structure/neurobio we have...I welcome your research but find it very unlikely you will find anything that is current that would promote your viewpoint.

But first, please discredit all of my sources, if you are able to provide proof that this research is inept and disproven...I think you will be unable to do so.

He's a poor debater in this regard. He dismisses out of hand anything that doesn't align with his "feels" on many subjects. His remark about animals being unable to do calculus, is rather laughable, considering many humans can't either. His dismissal of the science is rather disturbing, animal behaviorists aren't qualified in his book, because for one to spend their life studying animals, they must have an agenda.

I've adopted the stance that he's got his own confirmation bias to deal with and doesn't actually give a shit about any of it. He's just arguing to argue and has no evidence except for his "feels".


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-02-2016, 10:41 AM
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
(16-02-2016 10:30 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 09:33 AM)carol Wrote:  Come on, is that the best you can do?
You do realize it is appropriate for you to actually read the links provided, not just one?
You do realize that it is up to you to post current research that proves your claim?
You do realize that you are using a non-scientific way to try to invalidate this work?
You do realize that cutting/pasting is the only way to provide you some serious research we can discuss, so you can read it yourself?
You seem to be saying "I think this author is biased, therefore the work is not true" on the first link...
How biased is that?
Then you simply do not refute any other link provided...
And in the mean time you do not post any research which proves your claim?
Do you 'science' at all? i mean biological science...
Which, BTW is my agenda..
just plain research because I find it interesting and also because I have a passion for ( and have studied in college) neurological biology...

I must say I find irony in this, based upon your previous posts..
I have many with bigger teeth to them if you are up to the science...I did post the easier ones at the top...but there are many more ..

Start to prove your idea that dogs do not exhibit signs of emotions and have the same brain structure/neurobio we have...I welcome your research but find it very unlikely you will find anything that is current that would promote your viewpoint.

But first, please discredit all of my sources, if you are able to provide proof that this research is inept and disproven...I think you will be unable to do so.

He's a poor debater in this regard. He dismisses out of hand anything that doesn't align with his "feels" on many subjects. His remark about animals being unable to do calculus, is rather laughable, considering many humans can't either. His dismissal of the science is rather disturbing, animal behaviorists aren't qualified in his book, because for one to spend their life studying animals, they must have an agenda.

I've adopted the stance that he's got his own confirmation bias to deal with and doesn't actually give a shit about any of it. He's just arguing to argue and has no evidence except for his "feels".

Well then, I should just piss off..no point in trying to discuss it...
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16-02-2016, 10:45 AM
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
(16-02-2016 10:30 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I've adopted the stance that he's got his own confirmation bias to deal with and doesn't actually give a shit about any of it. He's just arguing to argue and has no evidence except for his "feels".

I adopt the stance as well...thanks for giving me some feedback...
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16-02-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
(16-02-2016 10:45 AM)carol Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 10:30 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I've adopted the stance that he's got his own confirmation bias to deal with and doesn't actually give a shit about any of it. He's just arguing to argue and has no evidence except for his "feels".

I adopt the stance as well...thanks for giving me some feedback...

Looks like you've got "adopt and survive" down pat. Smartass
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16-02-2016, 10:57 AM
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
(16-02-2016 10:46 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(16-02-2016 10:45 AM)carol Wrote:  I adopt the stance as well...thanks for giving me some feedback...

Looks like you've got "adopt and survive" down pat. Smartass

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16-02-2016, 11:11 AM
RE: Don't Tell Me You Adopted an Animal
(16-02-2016 10:30 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I've adopted the stance that he's got his own confirmation bias to deal with and doesn't actually give a shit about any of it. He's just arguing to argue and has no evidence except for his "feels".

Clap Clap Clap

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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