Don't Test God?
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01-10-2017, 10:56 AM
Don't Test God?
One of the themes I read in Christian apologetic sites is "don't test god" -- "god is smart enough to see through tests" -- yet Hebrew Scripture has several examples of tests:

Elijah and the priests of Baal in 1 Kings (malekhim) Chapter 18
Gideon and the fleece (Judges (shophatim) Chapter 6 vs 36-40
And of course Moses with Pharaoh throughout Exodus and with the freed slaves (shemoth)

Rabbi Richard Elliott Friedman in his book "The Hidden Face of God" points out that in the Hebrew Scriptures (which are in a different order than Christian bibles) god changes from walking with Adam & Eve in the garden to disappearing, and what a problem this is within Judaism.

For Christians, many people say, "They feel Jesus in their hearts" but I've noted they have created a god in their own image and worship & snuggle up with that.
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01-10-2017, 11:10 AM
RE: Don't Test God?
As quiz is to quizzical...
Test is to ...?

Welcome to TTA.

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01-10-2017, 11:21 AM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 10:56 AM)startreklivz Wrote:  One of the themes I read in Christian apologetic sites is "don't test god" -- "god is smart enough to see through tests" -- yet Hebrew Scripture has several examples of tests:

Elijah and the priests of Baal in 1 Kings (malekhim) Chapter 18
Gideon and the fleece (Judges (shophatim) Chapter 6 vs 36-40
And of course Moses with Pharaoh throughout Exodus and with the freed slaves (shemoth)

Rabbi Richard Elliott Friedman in his book "The Hidden Face of God" points out that in the Hebrew Scriptures (which are in a different order than Christian bibles) god changes from walking with Adam & Eve in the garden to disappearing, and what a problem this is within Judaism.

For Christians, many people say, "They feel Jesus in their hearts" but I've noted they have created a god in their own image and worship & snuggle up with that.
Such "tests" seem to be generally presented more along the lines of "put your faith out there and god will honor it". Taunt the prophets of Baal, have them put out water-logged offerings and call down fire from their gods and it won't come, but god will consume them when god's prophet requests it. That's different than "testing" god with a bias toward disbelief. Faith seems to be a prerequisite. Disbelief is generally regarded as the worst of sins. It's all a question of why the test is made.

The hidden face of god is not just a problem for Judaism. Judaism may simply be a little more honest in its acknowledgment of the problem.

There is no meaningful difference between an absent god, an indifferent god, a hidden god, or a non-existent god.
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01-10-2017, 11:24 AM
RE: Don't Test God?
I had a sky pilot tell me God was watching out for me even if I didn't believe in Him. To prove it he insisting on going on one our little boating outings. We brought him home in a body bag.

Maybe you shouldn't test God. Drinking Beverage
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01-10-2017, 11:28 AM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 11:10 AM)DLJ Wrote:  As quiz is to quizzical...
Test is to ...?

Welcome to TTA.

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Testical?

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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01-10-2017, 11:33 AM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 10:56 AM)startreklivz Wrote:  One of the themes I read in Christian apologetic sites is "don't test god" -- "god is smart enough to see through tests" -- yet Hebrew Scripture has several examples of tests:

Elijah and the priests of Baal in 1 Kings (malekhim) Chapter 18
Gideon and the fleece (Judges (shophatim) Chapter 6 vs 36-40
And of course Moses with Pharaoh throughout Exodus and with the freed slaves (shemoth)

Rabbi Richard Elliott Friedman in his book "The Hidden Face of God" points out that in the Hebrew Scriptures (which are in a different order than Christian bibles) god changes from walking with Adam & Eve in the garden to disappearing, and what a problem this is within Judaism.

For Christians, many people say, "They feel Jesus in their hearts" but I've noted they have created a god in their own image and worship & snuggle up with that.

Surely you're not suggesting there are contradictions in the Bible? Tongue Welcome to TTA Smile

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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01-10-2017, 12:55 PM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2017 01:05 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 10:56 AM)startreklivz Wrote:  One of the themes I read in Christian apologetic sites is "don't test god" --

I would love to test God. I've got loads of questions....

When can I meet him?
Hobo
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01-10-2017, 01:04 PM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 11:33 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(01-10-2017 10:56 AM)startreklivz Wrote:  One of the themes I read in Christian apologetic sites is "don't test god" -- "god is smart enough to see through tests" -- yet Hebrew Scripture has several examples of tests:

Elijah and the priests of Baal in 1 Kings (malekhim) Chapter 18
Gideon and the fleece (Judges (shophatim) Chapter 6 vs 36-40
And of course Moses with Pharaoh throughout Exodus and with the freed slaves (shemoth)

Rabbi Richard Elliott Friedman in his book "The Hidden Face of God" points out that in the Hebrew Scriptures (which are in a different order than Christian bibles) god changes from walking with Adam & Eve in the garden to disappearing, and what a problem this is within Judaism.

For Christians, many people say, "They feel Jesus in their hearts" but I've noted they have created a god in their own image and worship & snuggle up with that.

Surely you're not suggesting there are contradictions in the Bible? Tongue Welcome to TTA Smile

We all know that there are oodles of contradictions in the bible: most people who are believers create god in their own image and find the verses to support it: you don't find American Evangelical Christians keeping Kosher for example Evil_monster
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01-10-2017, 01:04 PM
RE: Don't Test God?
I do find it near impossible to test something that doesn't exist.

But perhaps we can use Schrodinger's cat to give us a clue. On the outside, we don't know if the cat is alive or dead until we open the box and look.

Let's switch things around and look at things from the cats perspective. While the cat is alive, everything outside the box either exists or it doesn't, but when the cat is dead, everything ceases to exist. The cat can no longer test anything which means if you can't test something, then you are most likely dead.

Since we are alive, that means god doesn't exist.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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01-10-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 10:56 AM)startreklivz Wrote:  One of the themes I read in Christian apologetic sites is "don't test god" -- "god is smart enough to see through tests" -- yet Hebrew Scripture has several examples of tests:

Elijah and the priests of Baal in 1 Kings (malekhim) Chapter 18
Gideon and the fleece (Judges (shophatim) Chapter 6 vs 36-40
And of course Moses with Pharaoh throughout Exodus and with the freed slaves (shemoth)

Rabbi Richard Elliott Friedman in his book "The Hidden Face of God" points out that in the Hebrew Scriptures (which are in a different order than Christian bibles) god changes from walking with Adam & Eve in the garden to disappearing, and what a problem this is within Judaism.

For Christians, many people say, "They feel Jesus in their hearts" but I've noted they have created a god in their own image and worship & snuggle up with that.

That's funny.
As far as I know the Hebrew Scriptures ARE in the Christian Bible.
Explain.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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