Don't Test God?
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01-10-2017, 01:09 PM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 10:56 AM)startreklivz Wrote:  For Christians, many people say, "They feel Jesus in their hearts" but I've noted they have created a god in their own image and worship & snuggle up with that.

Which is why you can test gods, as long as you're not doing it in front of religious people. Then you're testing them and that makes 'em testy.

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01-10-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 10:56 AM)startreklivz Wrote:  One of the themes I read in Christian apologetic sites is "don't test god" -- "god is smart enough to see through tests" -- yet Hebrew Scripture has several examples of tests:

Elijah and the priests of Baal in 1 Kings (malekhim) Chapter 18
Gideon and the fleece (Judges (shophatim) Chapter 6 vs 36-40
And of course Moses with Pharaoh throughout Exodus and with the freed slaves (shemoth)

Rabbi Richard Elliott Friedman in his book "The Hidden Face of God" points out that in the Hebrew Scriptures (which are in a different order than Christian bibles) god changes from walking with Adam & Eve in the garden to disappearing, and what a problem this is within Judaism.

For Christians, many people say, "They feel Jesus in their hearts" but I've noted they have created a god in their own image and worship & snuggle up with that.

Judaism also maintains to this day that you can test G-d (that would be the Jewish God) through charity. You're supposed to give 10% of your income to the needy, and if you do this, your own wealth will increase and/or your desire for more will be satiated. Jews are challenged and encouraged to test G-d in this manner.
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01-10-2017, 03:58 PM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 01:56 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Judaism also maintains to this day that you can test G-d (that would be the Jewish God) through charity. You're supposed to give 10% of your income to the needy, and if you do this, your own wealth will increase and/or your desire for more will be satiated. Jews are challenged and encouraged to test G-d in this manner.
Yes in fact if I'm not mistaken isn't there an overt INVITATION to test god in this regard, in the Hebrew scriptures? Test me and see if I don't open the floodgates of heaven, or words to that effect?

Yep -- Malachai 3:10.

Although it's really just a florid restatement of the principle that if you aren't all grabby and share nicely with others, what goes around tends to come around. Not much of a test, and vague enough to weasel out of if it doesn't work.
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01-10-2017, 04:06 PM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 03:58 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(01-10-2017 01:56 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Judaism also maintains to this day that you can test G-d (that would be the Jewish God) through charity. You're supposed to give 10% of your income to the needy, and if you do this, your own wealth will increase and/or your desire for more will be satiated. Jews are challenged and encouraged to test G-d in this manner.
Yes in fact if I'm not mistaken isn't there an overt INVITATION to test god in this regard, in the Hebrew scriptures? Test me and see if I don't open the floodgates of heaven, or words to that effect?

Yep -- Malachai 3:10.

Although it's really just a florid restatement of the principle that if you aren't all grabby and share nicely with others, what goes around tends to come around. Not much of a test, and vague enough to weasel out of if it doesn't work.

If a Jew tests G-d in this manner, and they are not convinced, then they'd be justified to cease their observance. End of story.
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01-10-2017, 04:14 PM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 01:56 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(01-10-2017 10:56 AM)startreklivz Wrote:  One of the themes I read in Christian apologetic sites is "don't test god" -- "god is smart enough to see through tests" -- yet Hebrew Scripture has several examples of tests:

Elijah and the priests of Baal in 1 Kings (malekhim) Chapter 18
Gideon and the fleece (Judges (shophatim) Chapter 6 vs 36-40
And of course Moses with Pharaoh throughout Exodus and with the freed slaves (shemoth)

Rabbi Richard Elliott Friedman in his book "The Hidden Face of God" points out that in the Hebrew Scriptures (which are in a different order than Christian bibles) god changes from walking with Adam & Eve in the garden to disappearing, and what a problem this is within Judaism.

For Christians, many people say, "They feel Jesus in their hearts" but I've noted they have created a god in their own image and worship & snuggle up with that.

Judaism also maintains to this day that you can test G-d (that would be the Jewish God) through charity. You're supposed to give 10% of your income to the needy, and if you do this, your own wealth will increase and/or your desire for more will be satiated. Jews are challenged and encouraged to test G-d in this manner.

I think the Book of Job is one giant god test. Big Grin

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01-10-2017, 04:23 PM
RE: Don't Test God?
I remember a story about a man challenging god and coming out on top.

I think it was called The Odyssey.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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02-10-2017, 12:32 AM
RE: Don't Test God?
Don't test God, because it will fail to distinguish itself from nothing, and you might have to ask yourself some serious questions.

Why do people always assume our hypothetical creator (a) is still alive and (b) gives a shit about this reality any more? Do you still care about that Sim City map you made when you were 12?

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02-10-2017, 01:04 AM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 04:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(01-10-2017 01:56 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Judaism also maintains to this day that you can test G-d (that would be the Jewish God) through charity. You're supposed to give 10% of your income to the needy, and if you do this, your own wealth will increase and/or your desire for more will be satiated. Jews are challenged and encouraged to test G-d in this manner.

I think the Book of Job is one giant god test. Big Grin

"God noticed a group of angels nearby looking at him worriedly, and then something caught his eye behind them. A flash of black. 50 feet away near a tree Satan looked at him. He didn't smile, he didn't do anything, he just looked at God who knew in that moment that something important had changed between them.
We weren't testing Job, suddenly crossed his mind. We were testing me."
- The Story of God, by Chris Matheson, starting partway through God's admonishment of Job.

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02-10-2017, 03:40 AM
RE: Don't Test God?
Don't test the lord, he's pure sick in a dance off or a Yo' Momma contest.

Seriously though, you can't test the lord, because it basically proves it doesn't exist.

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02-10-2017, 03:50 AM
RE: Don't Test God?
(01-10-2017 04:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I think the Book of Job is one giant god test. Big Grin

Yeah, but ha satan challenged Yahweh to what effectively amounted to a drinking game. Is it really a test then one imaginary friend is dicking around another imaginary friend? Consider

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