Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
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19-11-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(19-11-2013 02:36 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 02:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yeah. And, that's only a portion of it. I've answered so many other questions in various topics over the years.

And, I've never "had my ass handed to me" in a theological debate, and you won't be doing it either (if I actually got the fortitude to get into one).

That's quite doubtful.

Quote:Have I "lost"? Sure. Have I "won"? Absolutely. But, for the most part, theological debates between theists and atheists (if everyone is honest) usually end in a stalemate because the the root of the argument is based on non-empirical evidence; therefore, it cannot be proved or disproved.
That's a dodge, too.

Not a dodge.

Look I'll save us some time.

Can I prove God exists? No. Can you prove God doesn't exist? No.

Why not?

Because it's based on non-empirical evidence. Only empirical evidence can be proved.

End of argument.

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19-11-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(19-11-2013 02:52 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 02:36 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  That's quite doubtful.

That's a dodge, too.

Not a dodge.


Yes a dodge.


Quote:Look I'll save us some time.

Can I prove God exists? No.

And your Gawd-figure is your assertion, for which you have the burden of proof. You can't prove it. You needed to put this here in your post:


Quote:End of argument.

Yes, right there.


But instead you attempt to shift the burden of proof, an extremely common disingenuous tactic:

Quote: Can you prove God doesn't exist? No.

I'm under no obligation to. the burden of proof is yours.

Quote:Why not?

Because it's based on non-empirical evidence. Only empirical evidence can be proved.

It's based on known superstitions and evolving fairy tales. For THAT, there IS empirical evidence.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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19-11-2013, 03:03 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
Taqiyya,

You're arguing with KC. Not only will you "lose" but you'll find most of the atheists heartily support KC's viewpoints and high intelligence here on this forum.

I would gently disagree with you both, however, and mention that for purposes of rendering decisions, documents may be viewed or reviewed as evidence. A key question remains as to whether the Bible includes reliable documents or unreliable documents.

You see, in my view, Christianity rests not on faith but on truth.
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19-11-2013, 03:19 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(19-11-2013 03:01 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Yes a dodge.

[Image: you_keep_using_that_word.jpg]

Quote:And your Gawd-figure is your assertion, for which you have the burden of proof. You can't prove it. You needed to put this here in your post:

But instead you attempt to shift the burden of proof, an extremely common disingenuous tactic:

I'm under no obligation to. the burden of proof is yours.

No, actually... if I recall correctly you were the one that first asserted that God didn't exist; therefore, it's your burden to prove that.

The asserting party has the burden of proof. In fact, I explicitly stated that it cannot be proved nor will I attempt to prove it because it's not based on empirical evidence.

I'm not shifting the burden of proof; you are. Might want to take your own advice.

Quote:It's based on known superstitions and evolving fairy tales. For THAT, there IS empirical evidence.

Prove that. Show me empirical evidence that clearly states it's untrue.

While you're at it, show me empirical evidence that there's not a an invisible dragon sitting behind you.

Why you're trying to do that, you might want to take some time to evaluate what "empirical evidence" is and how it can be proved.

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19-11-2013, 03:29 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2013 03:50 PM by kim.)
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(19-11-2013 03:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Taqiyya,

You're arguing with KC. Not only will you "lose" but you'll find most of the atheists heartily support KC's viewpoints and high intelligence here on this forum.

Once again PleasyJeasy, try not to insinuate your confused and delusional notions and conflate them with the term atheist. You have no idea what "most of the atheists" on this forum are about or what they do or do not "support".

Kingsy's view of his faith has nothing to do with reason or logic outside of his faith. His faith is backed up by his understanding of whatever scriptures he considers inspired by the god he thinks exists per his personal experiences.

Aside from that, he's just another guy on this forum who is able to think. It requires simply understanding reason and logic and for kingsy, it also might require a touch of cognitive dissonance concerning his faith. Shit, it's not that difficult to figure out and it's not really that big of a deal. Rolleyes

(19-11-2013 03:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You see, in my view, Christianity rests not on faith but on truth.

Ooooooooh... aren't we just a christeegirl. Dodgy jealous

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19-11-2013, 03:32 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(19-11-2013 03:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Taqiyya,

You're arguing with KC. Not only will you "lose" but you'll find most of the atheists heartily support KC's viewpoints and high intelligence here on this forum.

LOL you really have no idea.

Quote:I would gently disagree with you both, however, and mention that for purposes of rendering decisions, documents may be viewed or reviewed as evidence. A key question remains as to whether the Bible includes reliable documents or unreliable documents.

Yes, you go ahead and pull out your fairy story and compare it with his fairy story and figure out which fairy story is real. Laughat


Quote:You see, in my view, Christianity rests not on faith but on truth.

I've already seen your versions of "truth". Laughat

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19-11-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(19-11-2013 03:19 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-11-2013 03:01 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Yes a dodge.

[Image: you_keep_using_that_word.jpg]

Oh, yes I do know what that means. Your unwillingness to admit it is the issue.

Quote:
Quote:And your Gawd-figure is your assertion, for which you have the burden of proof. You can't prove it. You needed to put this here in your post:

But instead you attempt to shift the burden of proof, an extremely common disingenuous tactic:

I'm under no obligation to. the burden of proof is yours.

No, actually... if I recall correctly you were the one that first asserted that God didn't exist; therefore, it's your burden to prove that.

You recall incorrectly. Your dodge isn't working.

Quote:The asserting party has the burden of proof. In fact, I explicitly stated that it cannot be proved nor will I attempt to prove it because it's not based on empirical evidence.

Yes. End of debate.

Quote:I'm not shifting the burden of proof; you are. Might want to take your own advice.

You're lying.

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Quote:
Quote:It's based on known superstitions and evolving fairy tales. For THAT, there IS empirical evidence.

Prove that. Show me empirical evidence that clearly states it's untrue.

Go look up for yourself that this planet is round and revolves around the Sun and there's no big city in the sky full of fairies.


Quote:While you're at it, show me empirical evidence that there's not a an invisible dragon sitting behind you.

If YOU claim that there is one, the burden of proof is upon YOU.

Quote:Why you're trying to do that, you might want to take some time to evaluate what "empirical evidence" is and how it can be proved.
Hell, I have empirical evidence right here that you and PJ can't even get your fairy stories straight.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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19-11-2013, 04:24 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(15-11-2013 03:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-11-2013 02:53 PM)nach_in Wrote:  Is it actually faith if they can't choose? It sounds more like a mental disorder.
Also you said this: "All things God created are of equal importance to Him". Except these Elect right?
Are they more important arbitrarily?

They are more important to the plan, but I don't think that they are more important than anything else.

Hold on; that sentence is self-contradictory. You say the elect are more important to the plan and then immediately say they are not more important than anything else, which of course, is in the plan, therefore making the statement a contradiction.

(15-11-2013 03:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  They are the effect of Christ's sacrifice which was part of the plan. A cause and an effect; however, they are an important factor in the overall plan as they are the result of what Christ's sacrifice was for.

But this doesn't explain why Christ's sacrifice was necessary for this plan.
Unless of course, Christ's's sacrifice was needed to make the elect, the existence of which, made Christ's sacrifice necessary; this of course is pointless circular reasoning...

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19-11-2013, 04:25 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
All you're doing is asserting that you're right and I'm wrong so nanna-nanna-boo-boo.

You haven't provided one iota of anything except trying to be an atheist e-thug.

Fact 1) I never asserted that my faith or God was empirically provable (in fact I said the opposite). I hold no burden of proof. You are the one asserting that Christianity is a fairy tale; therefore, it is YOUR burden to prove that.
Fact 2) You asserted that it was empirically provable that Christianity is a fairy tale and/or God does not exist. You have yet to back that claim with empirical evidence.
Fact 3) You claim that because PJ and I don't agree is empirical evidence against the existence of God. This is completely non-sequitur. Dissenting opinions do no invalidate a position.
Fact 4) Your riff on the fairies and a sky city show your lack of overall knowledge and inability to participate in a theological debate. Again, this is completely non-sequitur and proves nothing and is certainly not empirical evidence against the existence of God or the validity of Christianity.

I have given you organized answers addressing each of your points. I have also provided sound arguments which you have not addressed. Instead, you just make quips and try to "bully" your way out of actually answering or participating. Stop playing semantic games and trying to do burden shift crap.

You made a claim, now back it with sound evidence.

What I want you to answer:

Show me empirical evidence that God does not exist as you asserted.

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19-11-2013, 04:34 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(19-11-2013 04:24 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Hold on; that sentence is self-contradictory. You say the elect are more important to the plan and then immediately say they are not more important than anything else, which of course, is in the plan, therefore making the statement a contradiction.

They are the most important part of the plan, but no more important that anything else... don't really know another way I can say it.

Let's say you had to break through enemy lines. The demo team is no more important than the scouts, the points, or air support, but if the plan is to demolish a bunker, the demo team is the most important and vital part of the plan.

Another example is the end of Ender's Game... really the best way I can explain it.

Quote:But this doesn't explain why Christ's sacrifice was necessary for this plan.
Unless of course, Christ's's sacrifice was needed to make the elect, the existence of which, made Christ's sacrifice necessary; this of course is pointless circular reasoning...

I have no idea why His sacrifice was necessary to the plan. I don't know, nor do I pretend to know. In fact, only God could know that for sure because only He knows His plan.

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