Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
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21-11-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 03:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 03:14 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  For the love of crap...

Not all evidence is created equally. Personal subjective anecdotes are not at all compelling, and are not even considered 'evidence' by the far laxer requirements of law (let alone science). Do you want to know what happens when a court recognizes personal, unverifiable, subjective, anecdotal evidence? They start sentencing people for witchcraft... Dodgy

Why do you quote jurisprudence regarding metaphysics? Personal subjective anecdotes are certainly not evidence if we're putting God on trial. But we're not, for He's committed no crime, and you can't seem to find Him to subpoena Him to appear!

What you're really doing here is getting down on KC (not me, for I will not give you my proof until you prove you exist Big Grin) for claiming a numinous experience. Please decide whether you are questioning the validity of his personal experience or saying its impossible for him to have such an experience and for him to believe it and still be genuine.

In other words, there are millions of God witnesses who claim they've had discreet experiences. And you haven't had one so they must all be wrong since they don't have empirical evidence like clay tablets written in god's hand or videos of the sea parting, is that correct?

I'm not accusing you of being arrogant, but how is it not disrespectful to accuse teeming millions of people of being delusional about confirmatory experiences you say they never had? How are you now calling millions of people pathological liars, please?

Thanks.

I don't think he's calling those that have had experiences liars... just delusional. In fact, I'm pretty sure he believes they are telling the truth.

It's the validity of that "truth" that he's questioning.

The human brain is a very powerful tool... that remains mostly untapped. People tend to make the logical leap of the unexplained to the supernatural. To be fair, I also have to consider this... just because it has no answer now doesn't mean we won't eventually have one.

I'm not discrediting my personal experience, though; I'm just being fair to all sides of the argument.

My changing was inexplicable. Is there an definitive empirical answer for it? No. Is there a possible empirical answer to it? Yes... I could have a powerful emotional experience that caused my brain to interpret and believe a certain way aka a delusion.

Do I think I'm delusional, though? No. I credit my change to the supernatural because of my weighted personal evidence... evidence that is null and void to anyone else... empirically speaking.

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21-11-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 03:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  In other words, there are millions of God witnesses who claim they've had discreet experiences. And you haven't had one so they must all be wrong since they don't have empirical evidence like clay tablets written in god's hand or videos of the sea parting, is that correct?

How do you know?
How do you know that EK hasn't had an epiphanic experience? It is possible that he has had just such an experience and simply chalked it up to coincidence or after time and thought, found it to have another, more rational explanation.

Just because you gave away your mind all at once, doesn't mean anyone else has. Angel

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21-11-2013, 04:20 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 11:46 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You cannot deny that the world is filled with intelligent theists
Except theism has NOTHING to do with intelligence.

An intelligent person can still be ignorant regardless of how wise or charismatic he might be.
Quote:To someone without an adequate education, I can very well imagine how the their beliefs seem eminently plausible to themselves.
No i don't think education has much to do with childhood indoctrination.
Quote:The deep-seated irony here is the the smarter someone is, the better they are at rationalizing their beliefs.
That's the deal... there's a reason why they're "Believing" instead of being certain of what they believe.

Take @please Jesus for example no matter how much rational arguments you dish out at him he won't let his guard down and question his faith in a jewish zombie.

The burden of proof itself kills the any arguments made on behalf of God.
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21-11-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 03:25 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 03:14 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Not all evidence is created equally. Personal subjective anecdotes are not at all compelling, and are not even considered 'evidence' by the far laxer requirements of law (let alone science). Do you want to know what happens when a court recognizes personal, unverifiable, subjective, anecdotal evidence? They start sentencing people for witchcraft... Dodgy

While I agree with this in a sense, I also disagree.

All evidence isn't equal in regards to to trying objectively and empirically; however, all evidence is equal in regards to subjective and personal experiences.

If one is trying to prove something to themselves, all evidences have to be considered and even weighted in regards to the person's personal feelings and experiences with the said evidences.

The subjective and internal is not evidence.

Quote:Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

No, it's not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-11-2013, 08:00 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 07:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  You should know me well enough to know that there is no use arguing with people like that.

She never addressed one piece of my argument. Just cursed at me and used ad hominems.


Liar. And I'm not a "she".


Quote:I tried to engage on a normal level, but I was wasting my time.

You tried to strawman me and shift your burden of proof, and I called you on it. Typical xtard bullshit, no surprise at all.

Quote:It's not like engaging in conversation with the other intellectuals here... it was like trying to reason with a Neanderthal.

Yes, that is precisely what debating you is like.


Quote: If being mature and disengaging from from vitriolic e-rage is "getting shredded" then, yeah, I'm in a million pieces.

You got vitriol after you tried to strawman me and shift your burden of proof. I have no respect at all for intellectual dishonesty, and you got that in bushels.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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21-11-2013, 08:01 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 08:13 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 08:07 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Whadda doing? Don't get her started. Big Grin

I don't think she's a "person like that," I think it is just her being new here and she has yet to deselect from full auto. Once she sees how fluffy and adorable you are, I'm sure you'll just get the occasional drive-by roll-eyes. Thumbsup

Maybe.

Or at least try to engage in civil, intellectual conversation.

When "fuck" and "you" make up the bulk of your vocabulary, it's hard to have a reasoned dialogue.


Intellectually dishonest bullshit tactics like you tried to pull is not civil or intellectual. You get what you ask for.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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21-11-2013, 08:01 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 08:59 AM)kim Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 01:24 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I am going to say what I am going to fucking say. And what I fucking say will be judged on its own merits.

Those two sentences appear to be accurate predictors, TMockingbird.

Most of the rest of your fucking discourse was ignorable. Drinking Beverage

Then ignore it. Rolleyes

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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21-11-2013, 08:03 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 09:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:12 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  So - question:

(sorry I know I'm new..........but............)

If we ALL throw down to the tune of:
A. Christians cannot prove God exists
B. Atheists cannot prove God does not exist
C. Either camp that gives a rats-ass for A or B just have one foot nailed to the floor and twirl incessantly...........so its a moot point

can we get to the rest of the questions? Cause in all seriousness when all/any discussion reverts back to A or B the thread might as well die. OR we should just start EVERY discussion/conversation with the un provable and not talk atall.



just sayin..............


Sorry but I get bored sometimes.Tongue

I already made this point in post #111.

Didn't seem to affect anything.

That's because it's an intellectually dishonest dodge.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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21-11-2013, 08:07 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 10:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yep.

God is completely omnipotent and controls every bit of everything including the smallest bit of minutia.

You should preface that with "According to my version of the fairy story...."

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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21-11-2013, 08:09 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 08:00 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 07:53 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  You should know me well enough to know that there is no use arguing with people like that.

She never addressed one piece of my argument. Just cursed at me and used ad hominems.


Liar. And I'm not a "she".


Quote:I tried to engage on a normal level, but I was wasting my time.

You tried to strawman me and shift your burden of proof, and I called you on it. Typical xtard bullshit, no surprise at all.

Quote:It's not like engaging in conversation with the other intellectuals here... it was like trying to reason with a Neanderthal.

Yes, that is precisely what debating you is like.


Quote: If being mature and disengaging from from vitriolic e-rage is "getting shredded" then, yeah, I'm in a million pieces.

You got vitriol after you tried to strawman me and shift your burden of proof. I have no respect at all for intellectual dishonesty, and you got that in bushels.

No, you started the vitriol.

He never tried to shift the burden of proof since he never made any factual claim.
He says he believes in God and he said the existence of God is neither provable nor disprovable.

He has put up no strawman argument and, although I believe he is deluded in his belief, he is not dishonest.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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