Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
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21-11-2013, 08:13 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 08:01 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 08:13 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Maybe.

Or at least try to engage in civil, intellectual conversation.

When "fuck" and "you" make up the bulk of your vocabulary, it's hard to have a reasoned dialogue.


Intellectually dishonest bullshit tactics like you tried to pull is not civil or intellectual. You get what you ask for.

No, you're dishing out what you seem to need. He has displayed no "dishonest bullshit tactics".
If you think he has, please point those out precisely and clearly - you haven't done that yet.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-11-2013, 08:13 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 03:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 03:14 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  For the love of crap...

Not all evidence is created equally. Personal subjective anecdotes are not at all compelling, and are not even considered 'evidence' by the far laxer requirements of law (let alone science). Do you want to know what happens when a court recognizes personal, unverifiable, subjective, anecdotal evidence? They start sentencing people for witchcraft... Dodgy

Why do you quote jurisprudence regarding metaphysics? Personal subjective anecdotes are certainly not evidence if we're putting God on trial. But we're not, for He's committed no crime, and you can't seem to find Him to subpoena Him to appear!

What you're really doing here is getting down on KC (not me, for I will not give you my proof until you prove you exist Big Grin) for claiming a numinous experience. Please decide whether you are questioning the validity of his personal experience or saying its impossible for him to have such an experience and for him to believe it and still be genuine.

In other words, there are millions of God witnesses who claim they've had discreet experiences. And you haven't had one so they must all be wrong since they don't have empirical evidence like clay tablets written in god's hand or videos of the sea parting, is that correct?

I'm not accusing you of being arrogant, but how is it not disrespectful to accuse teeming millions of people of being delusional about confirmatory experiences you say they never had? How are you now calling millions of people pathological liars, please?

Thanks.

There are millions of Buddha witnesses who claim they've had discreet experiences.

There are millions of Thor witnesses who claim they've had discreet experiences.

There are millions of Baal witnesses who claim they've had discreet experiences.

There are millions of Flying Spaghetti Monster witnesses who claim they've had discreet experiences.

It's fucking meaningless.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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21-11-2013, 09:36 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 09:39 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I was changed suddenly. Against my will. I had a "Damascus Road Experience".

My experience has been mostly discredited by several members here, but to me, it's as real as my hand. I can't shake it. I can't get rid of it. I've questioned it... doubted it... but ultimately, I come back to the same conclusion.

Is there a chance that it's a complete delusion? Absolutely. I'm not discrediting that, as it's a viable explanation; however, there is also an equal chance that it's 100% authentic. in my mind, and through my personal experiences, the evidence I see leads me to believing in its authenticity.

And, this evidence is not provable to anyone else but myself... that is why I don't try to prove it to anyone else because it is my personal anecdote, and I can't rationally expect people to believe it hook, line, and sinker.

So, I just be "me". I interact with people normally, and if it comes up, it comes up, if not; oh well.
KC, I had one of those too. I wound up in the hospital with a heart rate at 3x my normal. It warranted a brain scan. So yes, I'm prone to bouts of craziness. I'm now convinced it was a delusion brought on by too little sleep, food and water for an extended period while I was having my 'mountaintop experience'.To get some perspective on personal experiences, I would encourage you to at least read the first few chapters in Sagan's Demon Haunted World if you haven't already. It's fascinating, and if I remember the stats correctly, something like one quarter of people have these kind of profound experiences.

Anyway, sorry to see our discussion of Romans 9 got derailed by some bouts of craziness in this thread. Hope we can take it up again sometime. I assume you've read Arthur Pink's Sovereignty of God on the topic.
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21-11-2013, 10:16 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 10:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 10:13 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  "God gives me my desires..."
So you chalk Everything up to God-Inspired or motivated? Nothing generates from your own imputes at all?

Yep.

God is completely omnipotent and controls every bit of everything including the smallest bit of minutia.

If you haven't seen this flavor of Christianity before, it's called Calvinism. We believe God predestines everything - including salvation and damnation.

I still question whether your god can change his mind.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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21-11-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 09:36 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 09:39 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I was changed suddenly. Against my will. I had a "Damascus Road Experience".

My experience has been mostly discredited by several members here, but to me, it's as real as my hand. I can't shake it. I can't get rid of it. I've questioned it... doubted it... but ultimately, I come back to the same conclusion.

Is there a chance that it's a complete delusion? Absolutely. I'm not discrediting that, as it's a viable explanation; however, there is also an equal chance that it's 100% authentic. in my mind, and through my personal experiences, the evidence I see leads me to believing in its authenticity.

And, this evidence is not provable to anyone else but myself... that is why I don't try to prove it to anyone else because it is my personal anecdote, and I can't rationally expect people to believe it hook, line, and sinker.

So, I just be "me". I interact with people normally, and if it comes up, it comes up, if not; oh well.
KC, I had one of those too. I wound up in the hospital with a heart rate at 3x my normal. It warranted a brain scan. So yes, I'm prone to bouts of craziness. I'm now convinced it was a delusion brought on by too little sleep, food and water for an extended period while I was having my 'mountaintop experience'.To get some perspective on personal experiences, I would encourage you to at least read the first few chapters in Sagan's Demon Haunted World if you haven't already. It's fascinating, and if I remember the stats correctly, something like one quarter of people have these kind of profound experiences.

Anyway, sorry to see our discussion of Romans 9 got derailed by some bouts of craziness in this thread. Hope we can take it up again sometime. I assume you've read Arthur Pink's Sovereignty of God on the topic.

I'm have too much fun conversing with Rage Against the Machine.

Anyway, we'll have to make a more focused topic for the subject so things don't get off subject so easily.

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21-11-2013, 10:59 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 10:16 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 10:20 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yep.

God is completely omnipotent and controls every bit of everything including the smallest bit of minutia.

If you haven't seen this flavor of Christianity before, it's called Calvinism. We believe God predestines everything - including salvation and damnation.

I still question whether your god can change his mind.

Nothing is impossible.

But, under the confines of omniscience, this becomes somewhat of a tricky subject... granted, using the term "confines" to explain something with no limits is a bit hollow, but I think you get what I'm trying to say.

God can change His mind, but He already knew what His decision was going to be; therefore, His decision will always be the decision He originally decided regardless if He changed it or not due to omniscience.

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21-11-2013, 11:03 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 03:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Why do you quote jurisprudence regarding metaphysics? Personal subjective anecdotes are certainly not evidence if we're putting God on trial. But we're not, for He's committed no crime, and you can't seem to find Him to subpoena Him to appear!

I would have really hoped that living in a post-Salem Witch Trials world, I wouldn't have to further explain why personal anecdotes and subjective experiences don't count as evidence in a court of law. They are simply not falsifiable, and therefore, open to abuse of the worst sort. Salem is one of the reasons you are 'innocent until proven guilty' in our courts (at least in principal, if not always in practice Dodgy ).


(21-11-2013 03:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  What you're really doing here is getting down on KC (not me, for I will not give you my proof until you prove you exist Big Grin) for claiming a numinous experience. Please decide whether you are questioning the validity of his personal experience or saying its impossible for him to have such an experience and for him to believe it and still be genuine.

Thanks for using a callback to remind everyone here of one of your all time most disingenuous and evasive threads ever.

Now if you think I'm getting down on KC, you either need to re-calibrate what you think is 'getting down on' or work on your reading comprehension. KC and I simply have reached an understanding that neither is going to convince the other of their position given the available evidence. We've both spelled out our cases and reasons in as little as a few paragraphs, and everything that needed to be said was said. I believe KC believes in the validity and authenticity of his experience, and KC is aware why I don't find that to be compelling evidence.


(21-11-2013 03:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  In other words, there are millions of God witnesses who claim they've had discreet experiences. And you haven't had one so they must all be wrong since they don't have empirical evidence like clay tablets written in god's hand or videos of the sea parting, is that correct?

If they claim they had an 'experience', that is one thing; people can have all kinds of 'experiences'. People have claimed to 'experience' astral projection, alien abductions, time travel, the afterlife, ghosts and spirits, and many other gods besides Yahweh. Without evidence however, there is no reasons to believe someone when they attribute that 'experience' to gods, aliens, spirits, metaphysics, or the super natural.


(21-11-2013 03:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I'm not accusing you of being arrogant, but how is it not disrespectful to accuse teeming millions of people of being delusional about confirmatory experiences you say they never had? How are you now calling millions of people pathological liars, please?

Thanks.

I'm not accusing them of anything. If there are 'millions of people' having these experiences and they all fail to meet their burden of proof, I am simply under no obligation to take what they say as factual. Without evidence, their claims fail and have no weight behind them; they are simply vacuous. I believe that they believe in the experience, but that's not good enough to convince a skeptical neutral observer. The only pathological liar here is the one I'm currently replying to. Drinking Beverage

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22-11-2013, 12:53 AM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(21-11-2013 10:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 10:16 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I still question whether your god can change his mind.

Nothing is impossible.

But, under the confines of omniscience, this becomes somewhat of a tricky subject... granted, using the term "confines" to explain something with no limits is a bit hollow, but I think you get what I'm trying to say.

God can change His mind, but He already knew what His decision was going to be; therefore, His decision will always be the decision He originally decided regardless if He changed it or not due to omniscience.

But can god change his mind on something so as to defy his plan? He is supposed to be all-powerful after all.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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22-11-2013, 01:07 AM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(14-11-2013 01:49 PM)Lawls Wrote:  If there was an all powerful being that created the universe, why would it care about our tiny planet? Don't people who believe in a personal god ever think about how out of proportion their beliefs are? It was ok back when we thought we were the center of the universe. But now we know that's quadrillions of lightyears away from the truth. Earth is one little planet, the universe is just massive. Why would a god create only one planet that he would focus on? but then create uncountable other planets? why the wasted space?. religions like the Abrahamic ones come off as arrogant to me because of this.
Haven't you heard? Earth is the only planet. All the other planets and stars are just illusions God put there to test our faith.Banana_zorro

Humans arrived on Earth on 22 October 4004 B.C. A few of us are still trying to repair the ship.
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22-11-2013, 01:16 AM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(22-11-2013 01:07 AM)f stop Wrote:  Haven't you heard? Earth is the only planet. All the other planets and stars are just illusions God put there to test our faith.Banana_zorro

Then god sucks at reverse psychology. Drinking Beverage

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