Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
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15-11-2013, 11:09 AM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(14-11-2013 03:26 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(14-11-2013 02:11 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  One is tempted to write, "Don't atheists feel the same way when they go against most of mankind with their paradigm?"

However, I will respond to wrote you wrote:

*There can be life on other planets

*There is amazing diversity of life here--we can see an amazing creation here on Earth with billions of living species, including higher animals, social animals and insects, and much more

If being Earth-centric seems arrogant of religion, than by the same token, if big God in a big universe is focused on little men, God is supremely humble

The cosmos may well have Intelligence beyond our comprehension and 'we' (soul, monad, whatever) could be tangentially linked, or this may not be the case at all.
The Christian Church largely reduces God (read, greatly higher motivating principle) to their own secular understandings of what might me good, within our limited domain.
Thus, our ideals, are egotistically transferred to God, who by stealth becomes the alleged initiator.Even here there is no consensus, with 1500 different Christian denominations and sects.

As for the great diversity of life, for fundamentalists God is seen as creating all this for mankind to govern over. Rather it would make more sense if everything was linked for some grand purpose, embracing all. Again there may be no ultimate purpose, and if there is, it is greatly more complex than fundamentalist Christian/ Judaism

And how is your morality broader minded in nature and absorbing this imagined grand purpose you've created? If you eat meat, you are subjectively disagreeing with the vegans. If you're a vegan you oppose the carnivorous folk at Burger King.

And if it helps, there are actually 14,000 different sects in history, not 1,500. All except the Catholic and Orthodox churches began by teaching the Bible is fact, you are saved by trusting Jesus rather than good works, and that atheists are willfully deluded.
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15-11-2013, 11:11 AM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(14-11-2013 03:26 PM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  
(14-11-2013 02:11 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  One is tempted to write, "Don't atheists feel the same way when they go against most of mankind with their paradigm?"

However, I will respond to wrote you wrote:

*There can be life on other planets

*There is amazing diversity of life here--we can see an amazing creation here on Earth with billions of living species, including higher animals, social animals and insects, and much more

If being Earth-centric seems arrogant of religion, than by the same token, if big God in a big universe is focused on little men, God is supremely humble

Alrighty, since you got a tad butthurt that no one responded to your post, here it goes.

One is tempted to write, "Don't atheists feel the same way when they go against most of mankind with their paradigm?"

No, atheists wonder why everyone is so blatantly shackled by an invisible being thought up by other humans.

"most" of mankind is a tad of a reach, since there are over 41,000 types of christian denominations alone. All with beliefs that are different from the other denominations. Now, if we total up the number of religious types, views, denominations, etc., that exist currently and historically, we run into a supremely large number.

There is no agreement among 'most' of mankind. Even the theists that grace this forum can't agree on the same god.

If being Earth-centric seems arrogant of religion, than by the same token, if big God in a big universe is focused on little men, God is supremely humble

Humble doesn't seem like the right word (i'm actually questioning whether you know the definition of the word)....'wasteful' seems like a much worthier term.

I do not like chess much, so in response to your 'checkmate atheists' post....

Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

Some, not all, demoninations and sects started to share the good news with diverse people groups. But it's still most of mankind regarding theism. You were promoting a straw man.
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15-11-2013, 11:13 AM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(15-11-2013 02:48 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Why is it necessarily humble for a supposedly omnipotent/omniscient being to pay attention to any minutiae with its creation? In fact, one might argue, that such a being cannot help but "pay attention" to every particle of such a creation simultaneously at all times. Thus making no single particle any more special than another, and making humility unnecessary.

Sorry--special attention or, if you like, particular added attention. Does that help? We might even go with "on call babysitting" in the case of atheists. "For the law is a babysitter until we come to the knowledge of Christ."
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15-11-2013, 11:18 AM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(15-11-2013 07:10 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(14-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Funnier than Laser Cats? Funnier than Rick Rolling? Funnier than Willy Wonka memes?

Yes, yes, and yes.

(14-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I should think not. It's more like a pretty, pretty picture of a beautiful universe and then a weird, Gentile-styled picture of Y'shua of Beit Lechem saying something He actually never says in either testament of the Bible or the apocrypha.

As a seasoned connoisseur of atheist humor, I can certify this image as being among the funniest of its class. It efficiently emphasises critical thinking and science over magical thinking, and in two mere words satirises both the teleological argument and the argument from morality often presented by theists in this and other forums. It even, as you point out, takes a stab at the ethnocentric and sanitised nature of modern religious practice and its supposed rebellion against being part of the world while simultaneously complying with every major demand of secular society on its congregation and its practices. It is objectively hilarious.

Do you write for Conan?

Masturbation is--wait for it--a sensitive subject to me. Laughat If, however, we changed the cartoon's caption to "stop masturbating over and again to pornography and to dark fantasies, stop masturbating over and again until your heart turns to stone and you objectify your future love interests and spouses to become mere bodies without souls and not fulfilling of your desire, until you lose your taste for the heady pleasures I've created for you in lovemaking with a trusted partner" we'd really "get the joke".

It takes the "exalted humor" of a twelve-year-old to make masturbation jokes. Masturbation addiction is a cause of emotional pain for millions. Grow up.
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15-11-2013, 11:31 AM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(15-11-2013 11:18 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(15-11-2013 07:10 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Yes, yes, and yes.


As a seasoned connoisseur of atheist humor, I can certify this image as being among the funniest of its class. It efficiently emphasises critical thinking and science over magical thinking, and in two mere words satirises both the teleological argument and the argument from morality often presented by theists in this and other forums. It even, as you point out, takes a stab at the ethnocentric and sanitised nature of modern religious practice and its supposed rebellion against being part of the world while simultaneously complying with every major demand of secular society on its congregation and its practices. It is objectively hilarious.

Do you write for Conan?

Masturbation is--wait for it--a sensitive subject to me. Laughat If, however, we changed the cartoon's caption to "stop masturbating over and again to pornography and to dark fantasies, stop masturbating over and again until your heart turns to stone and you objectify your future love interests and spouses to become mere bodies without souls and not fulfilling of your desire, until you lose your taste for the heady pleasures I've created for you in lovemaking with a trusted partner" we'd really "get the joke".

It takes the "exalted humor" of a twelve-year-old to make masturbation jokes. Masturbation addiction is a cause of emotional pain for millions. Grow up.

I bet prostate cancer risk from not masturbating is more emotionally painful.Dodgy
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15-11-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(14-11-2013 01:49 PM)Lawls Wrote:  If there was an all powerful being that created the universe, why would it care about our tiny planet? Don't people who believe in a personal god ever think about how out of proportion their beliefs are? It was ok back when we thought we were the center of the universe. But now we know that's quadrillions of lightyears away from the truth. Earth is one little planet, the universe is just massive. Why would a god create only one planet that he would focus on? but then create uncountable other planets? why the wasted space?. religions like the Abrahamic ones come off as arrogant to me because of this.
Sure, theists think about this. It's right in the Bible:

Psalm 8
3 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,
The moon and the stars, which You have ordained,
4 What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him?
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15-11-2013, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 15-11-2013 01:58 PM by kim.)
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(15-11-2013 11:18 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  ... stop masturbating over and again to pornography and to dark fantasies, stop masturbating over and again until your heart turns to stone and you objectify your future love interests and spouses to become mere bodies without souls and not fulfilling of your desire, until you lose your taste for the heady pleasures I've created for you in lovemaking with a trusted partner...

Wow, lot of projection going on there but I appreciate the need and willingness to unload. Shy So to speak.

What a coincidence you should allude to this subject of sexual obsession. I was just reading an exchange between a couple of our forum members about sexual obsession and repression as a part of indoctrination, and the outcome of enduring such a life.

I find this a very interesting and hopeful exchange:
Dark Phoenix Wrote:
Cathym112 Wrote:Its a shame so many religions criminalize sexual behavior of two consenting adults. Dr. Darrel Ray describes sexual restriction in religion in his book God & Sex as a Dam. A dam without controlled release can be extremely damaging. He also cites several studies that found a correlation (not causation) between sexual restriction and sexual perversion.

I know for a fact that sexual repression or restriction leads to perversion and disorder. I experienced an entire youth of uncontrollable desire to view pornography constantly. My insatiable appetite for sexual release surpassed the limits of physical and mental heath relatively quickly. The resulting shame and self loathing from a lifetime of indoctrination only worsened the downward spiral.

The irony was that upon losing my faith, and thus the sinful sex stigma, I became normal within two weeks. Everything just cooled right down to a reasonable level.

I now enjoy a happy, sexual marriage with my beautiful wife. All I needed was a little love. Smile

All of that hardly seemed worth the fuss everyone made for over 7 years. Not to mention the internal torture I experienced. Hell might not exist in the physical realm, but I know it is real in the mind because I lived through it.


A couple of weeks! There is hope for you PJ. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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15-11-2013, 12:54 PM
Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(15-11-2013 11:13 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(15-11-2013 02:48 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Why is it necessarily humble for a supposedly omnipotent/omniscient being to pay attention to any minutiae with its creation? In fact, one might argue, that such a being cannot help but "pay attention" to every particle of such a creation simultaneously at all times. Thus making no single particle any more special than another, and making humility unnecessary.

Sorry--special attention or, if you like, particular added attention. Does that help? We might even go with "on call babysitting" in the case of atheists. "For the law is a babysitter until we come to the knowledge of Christ."

Why would an omnipotent being need to focus greater attention on anything?

Do you understand the concept of omnipotence? It doesn't seem so because you continue to describe a being created in the image of man.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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15-11-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
(15-11-2013 11:18 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(15-11-2013 07:10 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Yes, yes, and yes.


As a seasoned connoisseur of atheist humor, I can certify this image as being among the funniest of its class. It efficiently emphasises critical thinking and science over magical thinking, and in two mere words satirises both the teleological argument and the argument from morality often presented by theists in this and other forums. It even, as you point out, takes a stab at the ethnocentric and sanitised nature of modern religious practice and its supposed rebellion against being part of the world while simultaneously complying with every major demand of secular society on its congregation and its practices. It is objectively hilarious.

Do you write for Conan?

Masturbation is--wait for it--a sensitive subject to me. Laughat If, however, we changed the cartoon's caption to "stop masturbating over and again to pornography and to dark fantasies, stop masturbating over and again until your heart turns to stone and you objectify your future love interests and spouses to become mere bodies without souls and not fulfilling of your desire, until you lose your taste for the heady pleasures I've created for you in lovemaking with a trusted partner" we'd really "get the joke".

It takes the "exalted humor" of a twelve-year-old to make masturbation jokes. Masturbation addiction is a cause of emotional pain for millions. Grow up.

I knew you were a pathological wanker!

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15-11-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: Don't Theists ever think about how insanely out of proportion their beliefs are?
All things God created are of equal importance to Him... every bit of minutia in everything; however, there are more important factors that contribute to His plan.

His plan intricately involves humanity; therefore, in order for His plan to come to fruition, those factors are the more important ones.

That being said, the world He created is bound by laws and causes and effects, so this is why the minutia of everything is important. Did He control the action of you squishing that cricket earlier?

Yes. But why?

Because of the binding of the laws of physics and because of the creation of psychology of humans. Our disregard for the life of the cricket and our perceived superiority over the cricket is caused by the sin that God created for humanity which affects our psychology; therefore, a cause and an effect - stepping on the cricket.

Likewise, the binding to the laws of physics that God created for our world results in the cricket being smashed.

God actively controls all of this because this is how He wanted the world to be, and He fulfills the rules that He set up.

There is nothing too big or too small that He's not controlling - if so, then He's not omnipotent.

I hope this was clear. I haven't been theological in awhile, so some of it may seem muddled.

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