"Don't go to Hell!"
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30-01-2015, 04:01 PM
RE: "Don't go to Hell!"
Quote:I told him that the god i was raised to believe in would have stepped in some time in my 22 years of praying, and pleading, and crying to "deliver" me but he didn't.

Gotta single this particular quote out. YES. I deconverted about a year and a half ago, and this is one of my biggest arguments whenever anyone asks how I can be sure. I was having doubts about my religion since I was 12 or so, and it scared the shit out of me because I didn't want to go to hell, and I prayed EVERY SINGLE NIGHT that god would help me "come back to him" and "give me a sign, ease my doubts", even when I was borderline suicidal at the age of 21 due to life events and needed something.

Nothing.

And that's pretty harsh coming from the same god who supposedly talks to some elderly people on a daily basis, or helps my dad find his keys. And he couldn't even spare some time to help me out? Fuck him.

Anyway, that's a rough spot to be in, man. That's two coming outs at once, which is pretty ballsy, so kudos for that. I mean, as much as it hurts for these people you love to be attacking you, just always remember that what they're doing, thats the "Christian spirit" they're showing you. That's the "unconditional love" that contemporary Christianity is constantly trying to say they're all about. The same "love" that I was shown back when I tried to find some comfort in the Christian community when I was nearing my point of deconversion, only to be told I was a "disappointment to my family" and that "they'll be glad when I'm burning in Hell".

So you just smile and tuck this incident into your gay fucking pockets and deliver some powerful knowledge the next time someone tries to re-convert you.

Good luck, and hopefully things get better. This is a great place to vent and if you're ever feeling lost in your head, or anxiety/fear/depression/whatever is starting to get the better of you, or if you have any nagging questions on your mind, seriously, don't be afraid to post here.

This forum is what got me through my deconversion, and I might not be where I am today if it weren't for the understanding and incredibly helpful folks on the site.
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30-01-2015, 04:53 PM
RE: "Don't go to Hell!"
Your ex-pastor is a fucking clueless idiot. You are going to meet a lot more clever and caring people on this forum. What you have done is so difficult, kudos to you. I can't even fathom coming out atheist to my extended latin american family (very catholic) so you are truly brave.
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31-01-2015, 12:10 AM
RE: "Don't go to Hell!"
Okay. I won't.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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31-01-2015, 09:27 AM
RE: "Don't go to Hell!"
(28-01-2015 08:56 PM)chibigiraffe Wrote:  Hope this is not too long...
So I'm in a bit of a mess internally right now...

I am a new atheist who happens to be gay also. I have already came out to my parents (three times now!...) as gay and I have talked to them about "doubting my faith".

My immediate family consists of three sisters and one brother (all younger than me) and my parents. I sat them down and told them all at once the last time I brought it up. They didn't take the news well and the meeting didn't end on the best of terms. It has been a month or so since then and they act as if it never happened.

So I officially came out to my (ex)pastor (I say "officially" because when my father first heard of my "homosexual tendencies" a few months ago, he blabbed about it to my pastor). It was a little awkward but I felt like I had to do it. I am (now was) very active in the church (choir, praise team, usher board, and even a deacon) so I felt I at least had to say something to my (ex)pastor.

He started off asking me about Sodom and Gomorrah. I was extremely put-off by this because I honestly thought he was smarter than that, but apparently not if he thought that was gonna work on me. Maybe he thought I was the idiot. Anyways, i told him how I thought the story was about wickedness in general and that the "sin" of homosexuality wasn't even brought up anytime throughout the bible when referring to this story.

He went on and on about the bible and eventually i told him that i didn't even believe in the bible or god or the devil. I told him that the god i was raised to believe in would have stepped in some time in my 22 years of praying, and pleading, and crying to "deliver" me but he didn't. either he didn't care that i was gay or didn't care about me at all.

He ended the conversation cheaply and that was that. I am glad that I don't have to act and put on this facade at church anymore.

This happened last Sunday. This Sunday I went to church today with my family. We go every single Sunday. I still live with my parents, so to avoid unnecessary squabble i just go to church despite being a gaytheist.

In Sunday school today, some lady went on a rant (like she always does when she opens her mouth) and started talking about how she had to take some test for her job and how it was asking questions like "what consists of a family? A: man and women married B: unmarried man and woman living together C: two women and D: two men. She was taught that the answer was all four but she didn't like that answer and knowing wrote out the wrong answer. She was so proud of herself denying the right of other people to qualify as a family "under god" in her eyes even though she ended up failing the test because of it. I should have seen this as a sign that today was gonna be a bad day, but no. I had too much hope and just shrugged it off. It was nothing i wasn't used to hearing anyways...

After the lady finished her rant, my dad stood up and not only agreed with her statement but added that it didn't matter who it was; whether his dad, brother or son; that it was wrong and he wouldn't ever change his mind about it. He wouldn't even go to his, metaphorically speaking, gay dads' wedding or anything like that. Yes, he knows I'm gay and obviously doesn't care that I had to sit there and hear him say this.

It came down to the pastor to present his sermon. He started off by stating that "he had originally had another topic to preach about but god? gave him another message." It was entitled "don't go to hell" and I immediately knew what he was going with this. He even said that 'this message (from god?) was directed for somebody in the room that day "ahem", me of course.

He went straight for the gut and started spouting nonsense about people not believing in god going to hell. How convenient for his message to change when I came out to him. He then started reading verses from the bible stating that nonbelievers were fools and went on asserting that it was true because only a fool would deny a "loving caring god?" "i didn't say it, the bible did!" He yells. I was starting to get really angry bu I held it in. I wanted to walk away but I didn't want to draw any attention to myself.

He then went to a scripture stating that same loving caring god? gave people over to evil desires and even talked about how Paul wrote that people rebelled against god? and he "gave them over to their lust and flesh". Yes, this is one of those clobber passages christians love to use to condemn gay people. I couldn't take it anymore so I got up and left the building. I sat outside and waited for the service to be over.

I trusted this guy. The bad thing about it is that no one else knows what he did but him and me. I lost all respect for that guy... I don't know what to do anymore....

My family not only goes to church on Sunday but also Thursday nights. Tomorrow they are planning on going but I don't think I can even stand in "that mans'" presence. I know I should stand up to my parents but it's easier said than done...

Well each experience you face teaches you something, so what is there to learn here?

Firstly, you're strong and this will only make you stronger. I have a lot of respect for you making your stand.

Secondly, may the veil has been lifted completely from your eyes regarding clergy. Whilst I can forgive people being deluded, especially if they have been indoctrinated, there's a special black place in my heart for most clergy, who are the agents of religion. Why?

Well, they uphold the system and are so hopelessly dependent on it (often financially) that many will throw anyone under the bus, rather than risk being seen putting people before their myths. Religion is, after all, just authoritarian repressive politics in disguise. You just experienced that in the most cynical way possible.

Thirdly, even people who may well love might be deluded enough to think your choices are wrong. Maybe your father acted out of fear of rejection from the congregation, fear of ridicule, or even genuine (if greatly misguided) fear for you. You know them, I do not. But I would agree with others who suggest moving away of possible, which will give you space to be yourself. But unless he has really done something that has closed the door to you having a good relationship, I wouldn't suggest burning bridges: consider whether he may have acted out of fear and choose carefully what you do. It may be in another environment, without fear for you or of ridicule of his peer group, that he might show you another side of his character, the one that cares for you.

Next, there are other people than your congregation and - indeed - your town. It's a big world out there (I'm in London, others here are in Canada, New Zealand, Greece, Australia, to name a few places). Through this forum you'll get a taste of the bigger world of opinions and ideas out there.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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31-01-2015, 05:46 PM
RE: "Don't go to Hell!"
(28-01-2015 08:56 PM)chibigiraffe Wrote:  Hope this is not too long...
So I'm in a bit of a mess internally right now...

I am a new atheist who happens to be gay also. I have already came out to my parents (three times now!...) as gay and I have talked to them about "doubting my faith".

My immediate family consists of three sisters and one brother (all younger than me) and my parents. I sat them down and told them all at once the last time I brought it up. They didn't take the news well and the meeting didn't end on the best of terms. It has been a month or so since then and they act as if it never happened.

So I officially came out to my (ex)pastor (I say "officially" because when my father first heard of my "homosexual tendencies" a few months ago, he blabbed about it to my pastor). It was a little awkward but I felt like I had to do it. I am (now was) very active in the church (choir, praise team, usher board, and even a deacon) so I felt I at least had to say something to my (ex)pastor.

He started off asking me about Sodom and Gomorrah. I was extremely put-off by this because I honestly thought he was smarter than that, but apparently not if he thought that was gonna work on me. Maybe he thought I was the idiot. Anyways, i told him how I thought the story was about wickedness in general and that the "sin" of homosexuality wasn't even brought up anytime throughout the bible when referring to this story.

He went on and on about the bible and eventually i told him that i didn't even believe in the bible or god or the devil. I told him that the god i was raised to believe in would have stepped in some time in my 22 years of praying, and pleading, and crying to "deliver" me but he didn't. either he didn't care that i was gay or didn't care about me at all.

He ended the conversation cheaply and that was that. I am glad that I don't have to act and put on this facade at church anymore.

This happened last Sunday. This Sunday I went to church today with my family. We go every single Sunday. I still live with my parents, so to avoid unnecessary squabble i just go to church despite being a gaytheist.

In Sunday school today, some lady went on a rant (like she always does when she opens her mouth) and started talking about how she had to take some test for her job and how it was asking questions like "what consists of a family? A: man and women married B: unmarried man and woman living together C: two women and D: two men. She was taught that the answer was all four but she didn't like that answer and knowing wrote out the wrong answer. She was so proud of herself denying the right of other people to qualify as a family "under god" in her eyes even though she ended up failing the test because of it. I should have seen this as a sign that today was gonna be a bad day, but no. I had too much hope and just shrugged it off. It was nothing i wasn't used to hearing anyways...

After the lady finished her rant, my dad stood up and not only agreed with her statement but added that it didn't matter who it was; whether his dad, brother or son; that it was wrong and he wouldn't ever change his mind about it. He wouldn't even go to his, metaphorically speaking, gay dads' wedding or anything like that. Yes, he knows I'm gay and obviously doesn't care that I had to sit there and hear him say this.

It came down to the pastor to present his sermon. He started off by stating that "he had originally had another topic to preach about but god? gave him another message." It was entitled "don't go to hell" and I immediately knew what he was going with this. He even said that 'this message (from god?) was directed for somebody in the room that day "ahem", me of course.

He went straight for the gut and started spouting nonsense about people not believing in god going to hell. How convenient for his message to change when I came out to him. He then started reading verses from the bible stating that nonbelievers were fools and went on asserting that it was true because only a fool would deny a "loving caring god?" "i didn't say it, the bible did!" He yells. I was starting to get really angry bu I held it in. I wanted to walk away but I didn't want to draw any attention to myself.

He then went to a scripture stating that same loving caring god? gave people over to evil desires and even talked about how Paul wrote that people rebelled against god? and he "gave them over to their lust and flesh". Yes, this is one of those clobber passages christians love to use to condemn gay people. I couldn't take it anymore so I got up and left the building. I sat outside and waited for the service to be over.

I trusted this guy. The bad thing about it is that no one else knows what he did but him and me. I lost all respect for that guy... I don't know what to do anymore....

My family not only goes to church on Sunday but also Thursday nights. Tomorrow they are planning on going but I don't think I can even stand in "that mans'" presence. I know I should stand up to my parents but it's easier said than done...

Try and take it easy regards your sexuality and those spouting Hell.
There is a lot of crazy stuff in the old testament, including a claim that 'a woman who, in trying to separate her husband in a fight, accidentally touches another man's penis must cut off the offending arm' or something like that. nuff said.

One's sexual orientation is not sinful of itself...............

Just passing the day----------->
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