Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-01-2011, 11:14 AM
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
The problem with the entire concept being discussed is it's at odds with a few fundamental facts. For example, the populations of most industrialized nations is aging, and aging at a rate that most of the European democracies are not going to replenish their populations unless something is done. The US birth rate is not yet below what it will take to sustain our society, but we are rapidly approaching it. I believe Japan has this issue as well.

China has its own problems. Whomever made the comment above about girls in China is spot on. Chinese society does not value females nearly as much as males due to the giving and receiving at marriage. When your daughter is married, you "give" her to the husbands family, and lose whatever value she holds to you (i.e. as a worker in a shop or to contribute in the general income pool). As a result, China has had a dearth of females the past 20 years because baby girls were often killed at birth. I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to figure out the problem this is going to cause.

Unfortunately, the world's population continues to grow in the places in the world that can least sustain all these people, or in areas where militant religious extremism runs rampant. The solution is not for western secularized democracies to have fewer children, at least it's not in my opinion.

Ultimately, this is a problem that will solve itself. As populations grow and resources to sustain them become scarcer, you'll probably see an increase in war, famine and disease and that will reduce the number of people. It won't be at all pretty, but it's probably inevitable. Hopefully we don't hit that point in my life time because I really don't want to live to see it.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2011, 11:19 AM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2011 11:31 AM by Kikko.)
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
Quote:Religious people still breed like crazy based on doctrine and dogma.
I know that Lestadiolans breed like crazy (my lower basic school principal had 12 kids when he retired!), but ordinary/mainstream religious people too? I don't think I've noticed that, since families in Finland tend to have just 1-3 kids, religious or not.
So there's scripture that tells people to get alot of children in Christianity and other big religions?
BmW Wrote:The solution is not for western secularized democracies to have fewer children, at least it's not in my opinion.
I somewhat agree, although 1 extra person in Europe consumes alot more resources than 1 extra person in Asia. About 61% of the population is in Asia, 14% in America (both North and South), 13% in Africa and 12% in Europe.
Quote:Ultimately, this is a problem that will solve itself. As populations grow and resources to sustain them become scarcer, you'll probably see an increase in war, famine and disease and that will reduce the number of people. It won't be at all pretty, but it's probably inevitable. Hopefully we don't hit that point in my life time because I really don't want to live to see it.
It's not pretty at the time either.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2011, 11:22 AM
 
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
Mormons breed like wildfire ...


It seems as though most problems in this world aren't going to be solved.. I guess the sooner we all destroy each other in war the sooner all problems will be gone
Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2011, 05:45 PM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2011 05:57 PM by sosa.)
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
Oh god, not the overpopulation myth again.

According to the U.N. Population Database, using the historically accurate low variant projection, the Earth's population will only add another billion people or so over the next thirty years, peaking around 8.02 billion people in the year 2040, and then it will begin to decline.

http://esa.un.org/unpp/
Resources are not scarce at all, this has already been debunked. The problem is that resources aren't getting to the people that need them. Both of the world's leading authorities on food distribution (the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) and the World Food Programme [WFP]) are very clear: there is more than enough food for everyone on the planet. The FAO neatly summarizes the problem of starvation, saying that "the world currently produces enough food for everybody, but many people do not have access to it." Food is a lot like money: just because some people have none doesn't mean that there isn't enough of it--it's just spread unevenly.

Thanks to continuing increases in crop yields, the world's farmers are harvesting hundreds of millions of tons more grain each year on tens of millions acres less land than they did in the 1970s and '80s. For instance, according to USDA figures, the world was producing 1.9 million metric tons of grain from 579.1 hectares of land (a hectare is 2.47 acres) in 1976. In 2004, we got 3.1 million metric tons of grain from only 517.9 hectares of land. This is quite a jump.

This is not to say that we won't possibly need to dedicate more land to farming in the future. The point is, a rise in population is not always matched by a rise in the amount of land required to feed that population.

Since overpopulation isn't the cause of hunger, "fixing" overpopulation won't fix these problems. In fact, the obsession with overpopulation often leads to precious aid money being spent on population control rather than real aid. "Family planning" programs miss the real point, especially in places like Africa--which is that the people need legitimate, concrete aid.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2011, 07:38 PM
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
I think the 1 child thing is a good idea personally.

People say it's a violation of human rights, but that's the sort of liberal stuff that is ruining europe, where individuals mean more than the general population.

[Image: sigone_zps207cf92c.png]

Leonard Nimoy
1931-2015
Live long and prosper.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2011, 08:02 PM
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
(17-01-2011 07:38 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  I think the 1 child thing is a good idea personally.

People say it's a violation of human rights, but that's the sort of liberal stuff that is ruining europe, where individuals mean more than the general population.

That's a ridiculous policy.

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2011, 08:24 PM
 
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
While I don't think that people should be restricted to having more then 2 children (enough to be replacements of the parents) I think the gov't could simply give X amount of money towards benefits if you have 1 child, the same amount for 2, and no more then that (unless perhaps if you have twins or something, special exception). If you chose to have 3 children and can afford it, power to you. That is the problem with lower class people that have a whole bunch of kids, looking for gov't handouts.
Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2011, 08:27 PM
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
no one should be restricted nor benefit either way. Overpopulation is a stupid myth

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2011, 08:49 PM
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
Bible quote supporting breeding like crazy:
Quote:And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
-most people don't follow this but catholics , mormons (as someone pointed out) , jews and muslims tend to follow their religious leaders and this policy closer.

I agree that food may be sufficient but poorly distributed - the US(and western world) throws away several tons of food daily while in third world countries many die of starvation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...d-680.html
(this is just an arbitrary example - NOT a peer reviewed study)

Still , other resources come into play such as fossil fuel . Few poor countries can invest into green energy and providing nuclear technology to everyone could pose a security risk.

There is also the problem of medicine. A rising population , in confined spaces (urban area) increases the risk for infection and disease - I would list Haiti and how quickly cholera spread.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2011, 09:27 PM
RE: Doomsday prediction or uncomfortable fact
(17-01-2011 05:45 PM)sosa Wrote:  Thanks to continuing increases in crop yields, the world's farmers are harvesting hundreds of millions of tons more grain each year on tens of millions acres less land than they did in the 1970s and '80s. For instance, according to USDA figures, the world was producing 1.9 million metric tons of grain from 579.1 hectares of land (a hectare is 2.47 acres) in 1976. In 2004, we got 3.1 million metric tons of grain from only 517.9 hectares of land. This is quite a jump.

This type of farming is eroding millions of tons of top soil from farmland yearly. It is also not replenishing the remaining top soils nutrients in a natural way. To compensate for what the top soil is losing and bolster its output, farms are dumping huge amounts of chemical fertilizers onto the fields. When the soil is burnt out from over farming it will take years to regenerate the soil so that it will regain its productivity. At that time food shortages will catch the world by surprise and millions will die of starvation.

As far as sustainable food stocks go, we have already destroyed the ability of the Grand Banks (once a major source of food) to supply anywhere near the once profound level of foodstocks that it used to.

This foodstock decline is happening world wide. We have reduced fish supplys in all the Great Lakes and prairie lakes in western Canada. They used to supply large fisheries, but now they are a shadow of their former selves.

The chemical run-off from farm fertilizers is partly responsible for the decline of fish stocks.

High population density is putting pressure on our eco-systems and destroying some of them. Global warming is also putting pressure on these same eco-systems.

I do not trust those that claim that overpopulation is a myth. They are basing their calculations on certain optimum outputs and not factoring in the decline of the rest of the optimum outputs world wide. They are not even able to insure that the optimum outputs that they use in their calculations are sustainable.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: