Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-11-2016, 12:21 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(16-11-2016 12:18 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 09:55 AM)unfogged Wrote:  You still have not answered: how can you tell the difference between something that exists but can't be tested or examined and something that you just imagine exists?
For it to be a product of ones imagination one would have to have imagined it.

That doesn't answer the question. How do you determine that something is actually real and that you did not imagine it when you can't examine or test that something?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-11-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(16-11-2016 12:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 10:26 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Omniscient omnipotent creator of existence can...butter my bread. Now i have buttered bread here on my table. Is that proof of god?

Something omniscient omnipotent can do anything or choose to do nothing at all, thus anything that happened cant be evidence for this specific something. Drinking Beverage
Once again; didn't say it was evidence, but it cannot be ruled out

So what? A proposed solution that can't be validated is worthless. If something can't be ruled out then you have no reason to have any confidence in it as the answer.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-11-2016, 12:46 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(16-11-2016 12:21 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 12:18 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  For it to be a product of ones imagination one would have to have imagined it.

That doesn't answer the question. How do you determine that something is actually real and that you did not imagine it when you can't examine or test that something?
I did answer the question, you just don't like the answer.

It has been tested by me in every way I possibly could have tested it. These inquires would have all been based on my memory though. Past that I have thoroughly examined the scriptures and writings of many faiths to see if they indeed align with what I had been shown, which they do. Past that I have experienced, in reading of said texts, inner realizations or resounding truths that reedify what I had already known. Beyond that, and again; generally one knows when they make something up. I know I do. I also know I'm not too creative and never would have had the capacity to simply imagine what initially happened or things that happened later, and most assuredly wouldn't have had the capacity to link that to any other things. It just isn't how I work.

I know none of that helps to explain according to you, but again, I'm relatively certain that you know when you imagine a thing. Even dreams are woken from. Not that I liken my experience to any dream, but that your argument could be that dreams seem real and are unconsciously imagined. Also, dreams dont generally take place while one is driving down the road.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-11-2016, 01:03 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(16-11-2016 12:27 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 12:19 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Once again; didn't say it was evidence, but it cannot be ruled out

So what? A proposed solution that can't be validated is worthless. If something can't be ruled out then you have no reason to have any confidence in it as the answer.
What proposed solution that can't be validated? What are you talking about exactly? Thanks
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-11-2016, 01:08 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(16-11-2016 12:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 08:09 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  You've already assigned the value of god to your assertions, you aren't agnostic, you're just deluded. Drinking Beverage

Do you remember how we established that your personal experiences are not evidence and can't be relied upon to establish the truth of a claim?
Never said it could be considered proof for anyone else.

So you'll quit wasting time on this forum spinning your bullshit?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheInquisition's post
16-11-2016, 01:11 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(16-11-2016 01:08 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 12:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Never said it could be considered proof for anyone else.

So you'll quit wasting time on this forum spinning your bullshit?
It is my time to do what I want with. If your time is wasted in reading or interacting with me then you could stop both and quit wasting your own time.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-11-2016, 01:16 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(16-11-2016 12:46 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 12:21 PM)unfogged Wrote:  That doesn't answer the question. How do you determine that something is actually real and that you did not imagine it when you can't examine or test that something?
I did answer the question, you just don't like the answer.

No, you just restated the definition of imaginary.

Quote:It has been tested by me in every way I possibly could have tested it. These inquires would have all been based on my memory though. Past that I have thoroughly examined the scriptures and writings of many faiths to see if they indeed align with what I had been shown, which they do.

Yes, we've been over your cherry-picked versions of scripture repeatedly. None of that is an objective test of the existence of the god that you believe in.

Quote: Past that I have experienced, in reading of said texts, inner realizations or resounding truths that reedify what I had already known. Beyond that, and again; generally one knows when they make something up. I know I do. I also know I'm not too creative and never would have had the capacity to simply imagine what initially happened or things that happened later, and most assuredly wouldn't have had the capacity to link that to any other things. It just isn't how I work.

That's simply a load of crap. There is absolutely nothing in any of what you claim that isn't common in religious claims that abound in the culture.

Quote:I know none of that helps to explain according to you, but again, I'm relatively certain that you know when you imagine a thing. Even dreams are woken from. Not that I liken my experience to any dream, but that your argument could be that dreams seem real and are unconsciously imagined. Also, dreams dont generally take place while one is driving down the road.

Again, that's a load of crap. You had an experience and you have decided that you know what caused that experience. How do we test that conclusion? How do we distinguish between something that actually exists and something you imagined exists? I'm not asking if you are convinced that you did not imagine it, I'm asking how that conclusion can be verified.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-11-2016, 01:17 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(16-11-2016 01:03 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 12:27 PM)unfogged Wrote:  So what? A proposed solution that can't be validated is worthless. If something can't be ruled out then you have no reason to have any confidence in it as the answer.
What proposed solution that can't be validated? What are you talking about exactly? Thanks

"Something omniscient omnipotent can do anything or choose to do nothing at all, thus anything that happened cant be evidence for this specific something. "

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-11-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(11-11-2016 04:05 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  In one of the Catholic Facebook groups I'm in...

[Image: Found_Your_Problem.jpg]

I couldn't do it. I'd be trying to reach through the screen to strangle a mofo...

...as for pops, once once allows magic into the chain of logic, anything goes. No one "logical conclusion" differs from any other, even the patently absurd.

living word
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes houseofcantor's post
16-11-2016, 08:14 PM
RE: Doubt Thread in a Group I'm In
(16-11-2016 01:16 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 12:46 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I did answer the question, you just don't like the answer.

No, you just restated the definition of imaginary.

Quote:It has been tested by me in every way I possibly could have tested it. These inquires would have all been based on my memory though. Past that I have thoroughly examined the scriptures and writings of many faiths to see if they indeed align with what I had been shown, which they do.

Yes, we've been over your cherry-picked versions of scripture repeatedly. None of that is an objective test of the existence of the god that you believe in.

Quote: Past that I have experienced, in reading of said texts, inner realizations or resounding truths that reedify what I had already known. Beyond that, and again; generally one knows when they make something up. I know I do. I also know I'm not too creative and never would have had the capacity to simply imagine what initially happened or things that happened later, and most assuredly wouldn't have had the capacity to link that to any other things. It just isn't how I work.

That's simply a load of crap. There is absolutely nothing in any of what you claim that isn't common in religious claims that abound in the culture.

Quote:I know none of that helps to explain according to you, but again, I'm relatively certain that you know when you imagine a thing. Even dreams are woken from. Not that I liken my experience to any dream, but that your argument could be that dreams seem real and are unconsciously imagined. Also, dreams dont generally take place while one is driving down the road.

Again, that's a load of crap. You had an experience and you have decided that you know what caused that experience. How do we test that conclusion? How do we distinguish between something that actually exists and something you imagined exists? I'm not asking if you are convinced that you did not imagine it, I'm asking how that conclusion can be verified.
Proving the validity of my personal experience shouldn't be your aim. If you want to test what I say then compare it to the religious or spiritual writings of any group throughout history. See if what I "preach" is actually verified in some way. How would anyone test the words of another to see if an experience happened in the way they said? A lie detector test? What else? You can't check a past experience of that nature, but you can check the truthfulness of ones words compared to their actions, and you can check to see if their words are actually truthful when pertaining to other testable mediums.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: