Drafting and War
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-08-2017, 01:52 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(03-08-2017 10:08 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Y'know? Guys who'd done six months or a year as draftees, then shunted into the reserves, called up three years laters, rusty as all-get-out, and sent into Der Kindermorten or Passchendaele or Verdun.

Meat-grinders suck, especially when you're the cow.
My brother served with the PPCLI and he doesn't have much of anything positive to say about the reservists here in Canada or the "chairforce" for that matter haha Lots of interesting stories though, from the guy during bayonet practice that stabbed himself in the foot because he decided to step-stab-pull the prone target dummy instead of stab-step-pull, to the poor bastard migrant from Russia they had that didn't speak great English who they convinced to go ask the female officer for some fellatio cause the unit was all out and needed some to start a fire, to the more gruesome like what happens to an officer's brain when he decides to walk in front of the howitzer line without telling anyone and they get a fire for effect call.
My granddad spent time on a sub during the tail end of WW2 he had some interesting stories as well.



(03-08-2017 10:08 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Here in America, our modern volunteer military does great work -- poor leadership and politics aside. It's my opinion, and only an opinion, that that is because they weren't dragged into anything. Most of them are motivated, smart, and capable.
I agree 100%. It's actually kinda a funny as a lot of people like to shit on the US military, and while I personally would rather both our countries work towards getting closer to Jefferson's view of “Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations...entangling alliances with none” when you sit down and start looking at the positive impact it's had on the world....it's not a small impact. especially when you look at economics as well, as I am want to do Tongue, for example almost the sole reason that the Nordic countries were able to afford the comprehensive social programs for as long as they did/have is that they didn't have to spend fuck all on national defence.

It's really a fascinating subject.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WhiskeyDebates's post
04-08-2017, 01:56 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(03-08-2017 09:09 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Also because I'm a cheeky cunt, I'll point out that no one forced Spock to do that he volunteered. TongueTongue


Except that part about enlisting in Star Fleet, swearing an oath to stand by your brothers and sisters in uniform, regardless of peace or wartime. Also, he's a vulcan. Going into the chamber was a compulsion since he will always do what's logical.

My country has a big ass problem with being too lenient with enlistment. We are critically unprepared for any attack on our sovereignty, hoping that NATO will bail us out. Ironic, considering we're so miffed about the last time we were occupied. Double ironic since millitary education within communication and engineering is some of the best my country can offer.




[Image: 20cad83ad8d757191e2878b0f4bf05a9.png]
"Don't answer that. A rhetorical question."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-08-2017, 02:27 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 01:56 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Except that part about enlisting in Star Fleet, swearing an oath to stand by your brothers and sisters in uniform, regardless of peace or wartime.
......don't think Spock was drafted mate, pretty sure he joined Starfleet voluntarily.

(04-08-2017 01:56 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Also, he's a vulcan. Going into the chamber was a compulsion since he will always do what's logical.
One of Spock's primary defining traits as a character was that he was half Vulcan half human and very frequently acted on emotion when a full Vulcan wouldn't have.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-08-2017, 05:53 AM
RE: Drafting and War
Although I'm not very fond of the US military, I like the voluntary nature of it.
Military service here is compulsory and it can be traumatizing for many young men. Bullying, terrible living conditions, frequent accidents due to poor maintenance of equipment... Not to mention how non-Christians or leftists are treated, or the suicides, or the drugs. I can totally see why someone would want to avoid it.

Now, I don't see why the US would need more soldiers. I don't see them losing any war, nor is there any urgency.

Finally, as far as freedom is concerned, I would sooner abandon my country than be forced to fight a war that has nothing to do with me. To whom do I owe? My country? Which part of it? The ground? The people who only save and would save their own ass? Or the corrupt politicians?

Don't get me wrong, I love my country. But risk my life to save this shithole? I dunno.

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
-Guybrush Threepwood-
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes undergroundp's post
04-08-2017, 06:01 AM
RE: Drafting and War
I liked President Kennedy's idea of everyone serving. ( It would have been better to include women of course)...

I think mandatory service is a good idea. Military, Peace Corp- whatever....

I could see adding firefighting, paramedic or even social worker to the list.

But you benefit, you should be expected to participate...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes onlinebiker's post
04-08-2017, 07:09 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 06:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  But you benefit, you should be expected to participate...

Isn't that what I pay taxes for?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like morondog's post
04-08-2017, 07:30 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 07:09 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 06:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  But you benefit, you should be expected to participate...

Isn't that what I pay taxes for?

So you're in favor of people paying instead of service????

There was a time where the population howled about the rich paying their way out of military service....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-08-2017, 07:34 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(03-08-2017 10:18 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  That's the thing. Without exemptions, the draft can and does spread the pain through society at large, meaning that each family shoulders less. But exemptions are always going to happen, because you don't want to send an Einstein to the front with a .303. You want him designing your next weapon.

Agreed, I was thinking more of the guy working on his PhD thesis "The Role of Post-Modern Pre-Columbian Architectural Symbolism in Dora the Explorer."

(03-08-2017 10:18 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And that means uni deferments will happen. Period. Resource allocation, and all that. And because in a stratified society access to universities is class-based, that means that conscription necessarily is inegalitarian ... just the same as a volunteer army is. Sad fact.

That sounded pessimistic! It could never be perfectly egalitarian...but it could be legislated to be less shitty and less unfair. Maybe an impartial bi-partisan committee or study group could be put together to decide truly necessary deferments whether by field of study or other criteria. Though somehow I get the feeling no matter how perfect and fair conscription were made, when the time comes young sir Barron won't be present for duty.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jerry mcmasters's post
04-08-2017, 07:35 AM
RE: Drafting and War
I'm on board with national service of some sort.

MD -- when I was in the service, I had to pay taxes. One does not replace the other.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-08-2017, 08:38 AM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2017 08:45 AM by morondog.)
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 07:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I'm on board with national service of some sort.

MD -- when I was in the service, I had to pay taxes. One does not replace the other.

I'm not getting OLB's point though. I pay taxes as a member of society to access the benefits of society, including the protection of the armed forces. I don't want to be a member of the armed forces, if someone else does good luck to them. I don't see why I should be conscripted if I don't want to fight? Especially when most of the wars that I've ever read about have been stupid wars for unjust reasons. If I fight it will be for a cause that I believe in.

ETA: And as for substituting it with other forms of service, again, why? I am happy to do my bit by paying my taxes, why am I required to do some meaningless national service as well? If it is offered as an option, sure, I might even take that option. But if I'm not given an option, ya know, fuck that.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like morondog's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: