Drafting and War
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04-08-2017, 04:18 PM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2017 04:21 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 03:04 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 01:32 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And I agree (see my reply above to MD), to an extent. But I know and know of Vietnam-era draftees who came home bitter from being drafted for what was essentially a pawn's battle, which bitterness sapped their investment in the country's success. I'm not sure how the numbers play out over the population, though.
I enlisted three months before I graduated from high school in '69. I know of Vietnam-era draftees there still serving when I retired in '89.

Yes, I know some lifer draftees, too. That doesn't negate my point, because I didn't say that all draftees came home bitter and disillusioned.
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04-08-2017, 04:26 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 03:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 03:54 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I don't picture you in the military anyway.

Actually I was, sort of. I was in ROTC in high school. An officer.

Monumentally "sort of".
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04-08-2017, 04:26 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 04:18 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 03:04 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I enlisted three months before I graduated from high school in '69. I know of Vietnam-era draftees there still serving when I retired in '89.

Yes, I know some lifer draftees, too. That doesn't negate my point, because I didn't say that all draftees came home bitter and disillusioned.

I didn't say you did.
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04-08-2017, 04:40 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 04:26 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 04:18 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Yes, I know some lifer draftees, too. That doesn't negate my point, because I didn't say that all draftees came home bitter and disillusioned.

I didn't say you did.

Sorry, I was expecting it to be relevant and trying to understand a context where that would be the case ... and my surmise is the only one that made sense to me. I'm all ears if you care to explain where it takes the conversation.
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04-08-2017, 05:29 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 04:40 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 04:26 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I didn't say you did.

Sorry, I was expecting it to be relevant and trying to understand a context where that would be the case ... and my surmise is the only one that made sense to me. I'm all ears if you care to explain where it takes the conversation.
Simple enough. Which soldiers got the air time on the evening news?
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04-08-2017, 06:22 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 03:46 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 11:57 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  What does any of this have to do with a draft?

You tell me.
[Image: 822f972dbe8dd3910892c7b2a0624361.png]
That was actually my way of saying it doesn't have anything to do with the draft which is what I was talking about making your points largely nonsense.

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04-08-2017, 08:10 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 05:29 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 04:40 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Sorry, I was expecting it to be relevant and trying to understand a context where that would be the case ... and my surmise is the only one that made sense to me. I'm all ears if you care to explain where it takes the conversation.
Simple enough. Which soldiers got the air time on the evening news?

You tell me. I was just a boy at that time and my television consisted of Looney Tunes and Captain Kangaroo.
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04-08-2017, 08:13 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 08:10 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 05:29 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Simple enough. Which soldiers got the air time on the evening news?

You tell me. I was just a boy at that time and my television consisted of Looney Tunes and Captain Kangaroo.

What gets air time today? The noisy ones, the ones that reinforce the popular viewpoint, etc. The Kent State shooting was put forward as a common event, not an anomaly.
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05-08-2017, 01:23 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 06:22 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 03:46 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  You tell me.
[Image: 822f972dbe8dd3910892c7b2a0624361.png]
That was actually my way of saying it doesn't have anything to do with the draft which is what I was talking about making your points largely nonsense.




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05-08-2017, 03:02 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(03-08-2017 04:45 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  A draft is fundamentally a violation of the innate right to self-determination. It is immoral to force a man, at the barrel of a gun, to take up arms and kill men he does not know and to which he has no personal grievance. Not to come off as hyperbolic but it's involuntary servitude and we have a name for that...

Sorry, but in my opinion this is an overly-idealistic, pseudo-philosophical, and basically naive view of the real world, and in particular of a militarised world.

Nobody in Australia has ever been forced "at the barrel of a gun" to serve in our military. One could register formally as a conscientious objector, and take his case to court for determination of its legitimacy—which is exactly what hundreds of young blokes did during the Vietnam era. Marriage and accredited study also exempted many more until age 26, which was the maximum age for conscriptees.

If one refused to register for conscription, and didn't claim conscientious objection, then the mandatory alternative was two years imprisonment—although this usually ended up as around six months after good behaviour discounts.

—And your claim that conscription is ethically equal to slavery is absurd. Period.

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