Drafting and War
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05-08-2017, 03:09 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(05-08-2017 03:02 AM)SYZ Wrote:  —And your claim that conscription is ethically equal to slavery is absurd. Period.

How is it different? Some politician decides that you, who have no quarrel with the Vietnamese, are required to go fight them against your own will? I see no difference. Old idiots decide war is necessary and send young idiots to die in it, and if a young idiot decides not to go he's somehow a criminal? That's what's absurd. Period.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-08-2017, 06:13 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(05-08-2017 03:09 AM)morondog Wrote:  ...Some politician decides that you, who have no quarrel with the Vietnamese, are required to go fight them against your own will?

Can you cite a reference that supports your claim that conscripts are/were historically against fighting perceived military threats to national security? Or is this simply personal opinion?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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05-08-2017, 06:36 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(05-08-2017 03:09 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 03:02 AM)SYZ Wrote:  —And your claim that conscription is ethically equal to slavery is absurd. Period.

How is it different? Some politician decides that you, who have no quarrel with the Vietnamese, are required to go fight them against your own will? I see no difference. Old idiots decide war is necessary and send young idiots to die in it, and if a young idiot decides not to go he's somehow a criminal? That's what's absurd. Period.

The young idiot is violating the law. Regardless of your opinion of the validity of the law he's still legally imperiled.
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05-08-2017, 07:14 AM
RE: Drafting and War
(03-08-2017 01:36 PM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  My step dad was going on about Trump possible starting a war and some of us getting drafted. Like that was the best thing that could happen. He's a military guy, while I am happy that his military service, which he wanted to do, got me into college. I have put my foot down over and over and said. "I don't want to be in the military. I refuse to fight in a war."

I like the freedoms with... somewhat have. But Drafting is one thing I'm like, "Doesn't that violate freedom of any kind? We call ourselves a free country, but we are nothing but cattle to the slaughter for an over the top military.

I don't want any blatant lie 'Hero's Death' for being in the military. Especially if I didn't want to be there in the first damn place. Like I said, we should have a choice, and when I read about drafting in the Vietnam War, I thought that it was against the supposed freedoms we have/had.

People shouldn't be forced to fight. And I swear Trump is going to start a meaningless war and the poor/middle class pay for it with their lives. I get some wars are a need, WW1 and WW2 are one of those, but a war just because of oil reserves that the US wants? Or just because Russia refuses to bend to the US's will? And we decide to poke North Korea a bit more just to start a fucking war.

It makes me scared to know that I will have no say if that does happen and will be fore to die for a man who's ego is bigger than mount Everest. But at least On my grave I can have the last say of 'Died because country is stupid.' or something like that.

What's worse about this, my damn Republican family is all fucking for drafting. Like being in the military is the best god given thing you can do. I just want to yell at them at times and say, "I am not fighting for a country that doesn't give two shits, or even a shit, about me!"

They'll take away our freedoms as soon as their is a bit of evidence against you. You have no right, you have no freedoms.
"You have owners, they own you." - George Carlin.
Was your stepdad deployed to a shooting conflict?
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05-08-2017, 12:22 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(05-08-2017 06:13 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 03:09 AM)morondog Wrote:  ...Some politician decides that you, who have no quarrel with the Vietnamese, are required to go fight them against your own will?

Can you cite a reference that supports your claim that conscripts are/were historically against fighting perceived military threats to national security? Or is this simply personal opinion?

If they weren't conscripts they'd be volunteers wouldn't they? By definition they're not that keen. Otherwise conscription wouldn't be necessary.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-08-2017, 12:48 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(05-08-2017 12:22 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 06:13 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Can you cite a reference that supports your claim that conscripts are/were historically against fighting perceived military threats to national security? Or is this simply personal opinion?

If they weren't conscripts they'd be volunteers wouldn't they? By definition they're not that keen. Otherwise conscription wouldn't be necessary.

I posted an example above about WWII conscription you might find interesting.
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05-08-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: Drafting and War
The direction we're taking as technology gets crazier and battles are fought out in numerous small engagements throughout the world rather than traditional "wars" with defined front lines and one side against the other is making the concept of fighting with masses of moderately trained grunts obsolete. The name of the game now is small groups of highly trained, highly mobile units ready to respond quickly anywhere in the world. Less conventional forces, more special operations.

Another issue is that the idea of waiting for an imminent threat before getting involved, as honorable as it may sound to those who don't understand the bigger picture of leverage management as it relates to our ability to fight a potential adversary, is like waiting until you're in checkmate before you make your move.

If we discover that some arbitrary, similarly powerful threat is about to load up and head over, and has a plan in place to do so successfully, it's too late. We've already lost. Survival is about maintaining the flow of resources on which you depend (whether through direct control or through the enforcement of international laws intended to keep things "fair", whatever the hell that even means), predicting potential threats, and changing their course before they become actual threats. The practice of being reactive as opposed to proactive does not work in the long term.

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05-08-2017, 02:25 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(05-08-2017 12:48 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 12:22 PM)morondog Wrote:  If they weren't conscripts they'd be volunteers wouldn't they? By definition they're not that keen. Otherwise conscription wouldn't be necessary.

I posted an example above about WWII conscription you might find interesting.

You said IIRC that they drafted people because they didn't actually want volunteers because they were getting volunteers from critical industries. That still says sweet fuck all for the enthusiasm of those drafted. Although I have an idea from my reading that patriotism was running high in the US at the time, so probably a lot of those drafted were happy to serve. Even so though, the fact that it was made compulsory suggests that there were at least a significant number who were less than delighted to be sent off to fight other people's wars.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-08-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(04-08-2017 03:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 03:54 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  I don't picture you in the military anyway.

Actually I was, sort of. I was in ROTC in high school. An officer.

You are so fucking gay, like sofa king gay.

#sigh
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05-08-2017, 02:34 PM
RE: Drafting and War
(05-08-2017 03:09 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 03:02 AM)SYZ Wrote:  —And your claim that conscription is ethically equal to slavery is absurd. Period.

How is it different? Some politician decides that you, who have no quarrel with the Vietnamese, are required to go fight them against your own will? I see no difference. Old idiots decide war is necessary and send young idiots to die in it, and if a young idiot decides not to go he's somehow a criminal? That's what's absurd. Period.




#sigh
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