Dreams and Life after Death?
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20-12-2014, 12:30 PM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2014 12:41 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
(20-12-2014 12:01 PM)Gordon Wrote:  You always here moronic atheists claim that there’s no evidence for the afterlife, none at all, and until they have evidence or a reason to believe, they will choose not to believe.

The burden is on you to provide any plausible mechanism of action to support dualism. Any plausible MOA will do. Many have tried. All have failed. Dualism is untenable.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-12-2014, 12:32 PM
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
(20-12-2014 12:22 PM)Gordon Wrote:  I'm telling you all right now, I'm judging you. The initial responses tell me who knows anything and who knows nothing. Who should be considered, and who should be ignored. Who has any critical thinking skills and who's a fucking moron. So, you might want to think before you respond.

Only gawd can judge...read the rules again...moron.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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20-12-2014, 12:35 PM
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
(20-12-2014 12:22 PM)Gordon Wrote:  I'm telling you all right now, I'm judging you.

"You shall not judge, lest you be judged." - Matthew 7:1 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-12-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
(20-12-2014 12:20 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 12:09 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Or if you understand a tiny bit of neurology and how these situations occur within brains, you've come to a point of evidence of why they happen. Opposed to a random assumption they are something beyond the physical functions of the body.

Tiny bit of neurology, huh? Okay, tell me about that. Because I study neurology almost daily, and I can't seem to come to a theory of how dreams work. For that matter, how we are even conscious. I know how neurons work. I know that all the neurons in our brain are firing all the time. (10-200 hz), or they're dead.

So, how does that make a dream happen? You said it was simple, so please explain it because I missed it...Clyde. Popcorn

Why would blatant strawman arguments be worth arguing against. I said it was simple? Run by that exact phrasing again and tell me where I said it was simple? Or even where I implied it was simple?

Is there any evidence you're honest in any of your claims after you made something up deliberately or from complete incompetence?

Why would anyone desire themselves, in this case you, to come up with a theory of how dreams work on their own? That's excessive gratification of individual worth. There is actually various forms and studies upon it. Not having a definitive answer isn't a lack of understanding how they function though. Your concept thrown in about life-events or recordings is bizarre and I'm not sure where you find that as some definitive claims. There is multiple paths a lot of brains can take do to immense powers of reactions and creative angles one can take. BTW, when you're trying to set a standard, it's more beneficial to discussion to lay your meaning of terminology that people move about all the time. I wouldn't know what you mean by work or conscious without you saying since people of your type of rep on here tend to move their definitions around at every bat of an eye.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-12-2014, 12:50 PM
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
(20-12-2014 12:01 PM)Gordon Wrote:  You always here moronic atheists claim that there’s no evidence for the afterlife, none at all, and until they have evidence or a reason to believe, they will choose not to believe.

Okay, first you have to discount all near death experiences, which is simply sticking one’s head in the sand if you ask me, but then you have to discount the utter inability of the brain to produce consciousness. You just have to have a kind of faith that it does (even though simple life forms with no neurology at all seem to be quite conscious).

Finally, you have to discount dreams. I mean, think about it: you go to sleep at night, and suddenly you find yourself in a strange world that you never created. Sure, there are images you may see from your waking life, but we’ve all had dreams that defy that. We’ve all had dreams that we wake up from and say, “That had nothing to do with me or anything going on in my head.”

Some will say, “Nope, no matter what, a dream is just a replayed recording of life events, even if you can’t remember those events.” But again, that’s a statement of faith, that’s an opinion used to support atheism.

Fact is we have these strange dreams that have nothing to do with us. The very person we are in the dream may not even be the person we are, but we are conscious through them nonetheless. Why should we suppose that’s not exactly what happens when we die?

It sure looks like it would be. It sure looks like the more we lose consciousness in the waking world, the more we gain consciousness in the dream world. Some would say our mind is always on the astral plane and we are simply blinded to it by our physical awareness when we are awake.

After undergoing surgery and waking up from the general anesthesia, some people will say they remember nothing. It was just a blank loss of time. Some atheists use this as evidence that we blink out of consciousness entirely. But they don’t understand that the property of most general anesthetics is amnesia. Especially if Versed (midazolam) was used.

But we don’t’ have to go to that extent. There are mornings we wake up and remember nothing. That doesn’t mean nothing was experienced. In fact we know that people go into a dream state approximately 4-6 times a night, and in fact they may be in a dream state at other times during sleep as well. I can personally attest that I seem to dream all night long.

My point is this, we do have reason to believe we live after we die, we dream don’t we? Isn’t it pretty logical to assume that’s what’s waiting for us in the end?

[Image: What-Dreams-May-Come_-Hell_Visions_-Vinc...d-1998.jpg]

*Hear*
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20-12-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
(20-12-2014 12:01 PM)Gordon Wrote:  Okay, first you have to discount all near death experiences, which is simply sticking one’s head in the sand if you ask me,

No one asked you. Moron.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/08/...xperiences

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-12-2014, 01:03 PM
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
OK, I know I should just let it pass but for the sake of anybody that might think he has even a minor point...

(20-12-2014 12:01 PM)Gordon Wrote:  Okay, first you have to discount all near death experiences, which is simply sticking one’s head in the sand if you ask me,

I don't recall anybody asking but since you bring it up, NDE evidence doesn't point to anything more than a dying/recovering brain attempting to apply a narrative to what happened.

Quote: but then you have to discount the utter inability of the brain to produce consciousness.

Citation needed

Quote: You just have to have a kind of faith that it does (even though simple life forms with no neurology at all seem to be quite conscious).

What simple life forms and what about them implies conciousness?

Quote:Some will say, “Nope, no matter what, a dream is just a replayed recording of life events, even if you can’t remember those events.”

I've never heard anybody say that.

Quote:But again, that’s a statement of faith, that’s an opinion used to support atheism.

No, it's a statement that we have no evidence at all that dream worlds are real in any sense other than as activity in individual minds. If it was an actual alternate reality wouldn't it be more consistent for each individual and among different individuals? It makes much more sense to see them as just random combinations of real and imagined events.

Quote: Why should we suppose that’s not exactly what happens when we die?

Why should we suppose that it is? There's zero evidence for it.

Quote: Some would say our mind is always on the astral plane and we are simply blinded to it by our physical awareness when we are awake.

Some make all sorts of unsubstantiated claims. When there is anything beyond wild speculation it may be worth investigating. Until then, not so much.

Quote:After undergoing surgery and waking up from the general anesthesia, some people will say they remember nothing. It was just a blank loss of time. Some atheists use this as evidence that we blink out of consciousness entirely. But they don’t understand that the property of most general anesthetics is amnesia. Especially if Versed (midazolam) was used.

Citation needed for atheists claiming that we "blink out of consciousness entirely" and especially the idea that they think that is the same as what happens after death. The two states are not at all identical since people still have functioning brains while in surgery even if some of the functioning has been temporarily disrupted or suppressed. Activity doesn't stop completely like it does after death.

Quote:My point is this, we do have reason to believe we live after we die, we dream don’t we? Isn’t it pretty logical to assume that’s what’s waiting for us in the end?

Dreaming is detectable by monitoring and the available evidence shows that it requires electrochemical activity in the brain. There is no evidence that there can be dreams without a living brain. It is pretty logical to assume that when the brain dies the mind dies with it and the dreams end.

(20-12-2014 12:22 PM)Gordon Wrote:  I'm telling you all right now, I'm judging you. The initial responses tell me who knows anything and who knows nothing. Who should be considered, and who should be ignored. Who has any critical thinking skills and who's a fucking moron. So, you might want to think before you respond.

Laughat

Do you really think your opinion matters to anybody here? When you demonstrate any critical thinking skills I'll think about caring what you think is worthy.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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20-12-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
(20-12-2014 12:01 PM)Gordon Wrote:  You always here moronic atheists claim that there’s no evidence for the afterlife, none at all, and until they have evidence or a reason to believe, they will choose not to believe...

My dog obviously dreams. Are we back to stupid movies?
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20-12-2014, 01:10 PM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2014 04:07 PM by Nurse.)
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
(20-12-2014 12:22 PM)Gordon Wrote:  I'm telling you all right now, I'm judging you. The initial responses tell me who knows anything and who knows nothing. Who should be considered, and who should be ignored. Who has any critical thinking skills and who's a fucking moron. So, you might want to think before you respond.

Pretty sure most people here can read between the lines. Can you?

"Most people are not really free. They are confined by the niche in the world that they carve out for themselves. They limit themselves to fewer possibilities by the narrowness of their vision." Naipaul


Conscious sedation and the amnesic effects of versed is not equivalent to death. The experience between administering and receiving it is quite different (I've done both). Neither of us have experienced death. When I've performed conscious sedations there are signs my patients are still alive and will wake up intact, especially since many times they are still capable of following verbal command. My dead patients, not so much.

My experience with post arrests, anoxic brain injuries, TBIs, and CVAs changed my perspective of what defines the self. Those experiences held a substantial role in my deconversion and the possibility of a post mortem preservation of the self.

Edit: autocorrect and grammar correction

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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20-12-2014, 01:18 PM
RE: Dreams and Life after Death?
(20-12-2014 12:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  "You shall not judge, lest you be judged." - Matthew 7:1 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

For in the manner in which you judge, so will you be judged.

Perfect deal for this debate. Thumbsup

I love the way atheists get so incensed whenever anyone breaks a rule from the Bible--that they say they don't believe in. [Image: laughloud.gif]

Besides, Jesus was talking about moral judgments. But still, I like the deal for this debate. I'm willing to be judged just the same.
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