Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
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12-12-2017, 03:07 AM
Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
As vile as the bombing of civilians in London was the conscious fire bombing of the the above named cities is in my mind more reprehensible.

It was done to kill civilians and destroy towns. Is that a thing one should do during war, that is a somewhat difficult question but my own opinion is not. Killing other soldiers on a battle field is not something I approve of but something I understand. Destroying a city for the purpose of intimidating possible innocent people is something I do not understand.

This should include the relentless bombing of Berlin when that had little or no merit.

I would also point out that using Agent Orange in Veitnam only poisoned much of their population with only that effect.

Drones killing wedding parties is only the most recent effect of indiscriminate aerial attack.

Curtis LeMay should have been killed well before he died of natural causes.
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12-12-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
(12-12-2017 03:07 AM)JAH Wrote:  As vile as the bombing of civilians in London was the conscious fire bombing of the the above named cities is in my mind more reprehensible.

It was done to kill civilians and destroy towns. Is that a thing one should do during war, that is a somewhat difficult question but my own opinion is not. Killing other soldiers on a battle field is not something I approve of but something I understand. Destroying a city for the purpose of intimidating possible innocent people is something I do not understand.

This should include the relentless bombing of Berlin when that had little or no merit.

I would also point out that using Agent Orange in Veitnam only poisoned much of their population with only that effect.

Drones killing wedding parties is only the most recent effect of indiscriminate aerial attack.

Curtis LeMay should have been killed well before he died of natural causes.

I have also had serious qualms with the firebombings that we did during WWII. But over the past 20 years, I think that I have been learning a different lesson about the danger of 'sanitizing' warfare. Drones killing wedding parties don't happen very often. Collateral damage is way, way, way down from what it used to be.

I have started to think that the way that we fight war now, is no longer horrible enough for the wars to end. We ended our war with Japan in 4 years. Japan surrendered because of how devastating our attacks were. If today's military were to go back in time and fight the Japanese with today's technology and surgical approach to warfare, then we might find ourselves still at war with Japan today.

Mothers are proud of today's suicide bombers. Young women are watching the final videos that are made by suicide bombers. They are all proud of the suicide bombers, and the suicide bombers will not stop until their mothers tell them that they don't want them to do such things anymore. We have a nice little social theory that says that we can 'win the hearts and minds' of these women, and then the suicide bombers will stop. But that hasn't been working out so well. So maybe what we have to do, is rain hell down on them.

I used to hate Curtis LeMay. I thought that he was a monster. But now I am not so sure.

I sometimes have passionate arguments with myself that almost come to blows.
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12-12-2017, 06:41 AM
RE: Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
If war wasn't ugly as it is - we'd do it for the fun of it.

....

I'm a double atheist. I don't believe in your god or your politician.
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12-12-2017, 06:57 AM
RE: Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
We could have lost WWII.
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12-12-2017, 07:03 AM
RE: Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
Gen. Anami Korechika, (阿南 惟幾), War Minister under Baron Kantarō Suzuki (鈴木 貫太郎) in 1945, declared all Japanese civilians between the ages of 15 and 61 to be part of the military. This formal designation by the Japanese government made the (former) civilians legitimate targets in the war. Additionally, he ordered the people to do light industry in support of the war in their own homes. Again, the bull's eye was painted on Showa's subjects by the Japanese government.
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12-12-2017, 07:06 AM
RE: Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
(12-12-2017 07:03 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Gen. Anami Korechika, (阿南 惟幾), War Minister under Baron Kantarō Suzuki (鈴木 貫太郎) in 1945, declared all Japanese civilians between the ages of 15 and 61 to be part of the military. This formal designation by the Japanese government made the (former) civilians legitimate targets in the war. Additionally, he ordered the people to do light industry in support of the war in their own homes. Again, the bull's eye was painted on Showa's subjects by the Japanese government.

A non point. Fire bombs kill people under 15 and over 61. They are completely indiscriminate killers.

I sometimes have passionate arguments with myself that almost come to blows.
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12-12-2017, 07:26 AM
RE: Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
(12-12-2017 07:06 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 07:03 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Gen. Anami Korechika, (阿南 惟幾), War Minister under Baron Kantarō Suzuki (鈴木 貫太郎) in 1945, declared all Japanese civilians between the ages of 15 and 61 to be part of the military. This formal designation by the Japanese government made the (former) civilians legitimate targets in the war. Additionally, he ordered the people to do light industry in support of the war in their own homes. Again, the bull's eye was painted on Showa's subjects by the Japanese government.

A non point. Fire bombs kill people under 15 and over 61. They are completely indiscriminate killers.
Yep, and that's the only way destroy war industries in suburban housing. Truman promised a "rain of ruin" and the Japanese militarists didn't know how to get out of the mess they made, and thereby condemned civilians to a nasty death.
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12-12-2017, 10:35 AM
RE: Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
War is hell.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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12-12-2017, 10:52 AM
RE: Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
(12-12-2017 04:05 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  If today's military were to go back in time and fight the Japanese with today's technology and surgical approach to warfare, then we might find ourselves still at war with Japan today.

No, it would be over in about a month. Today's technology could sink their entire navy in a week. Or less.

With their entire navy gone, they would no longer be able to wage war.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-12-2017, 11:26 AM
RE: Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo
(12-12-2017 10:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 04:05 AM)Yonadav Kenyon Wrote:  If today's military were to go back in time and fight the Japanese with today's technology and surgical approach to warfare, then we might find ourselves still at war with Japan today.

No, it would be over in about a month. Today's technology could sink their entire navy in a week. Or less.

With their entire navy gone, they would no longer be able to wage war.

And yet, they could still be suicide bombing us.

I sometimes have passionate arguments with myself that almost come to blows.
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