Drich, let's have a round
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07-02-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(07-02-2014 02:02 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Can you give examples for "x,y,z,"?

What "1,2,3" were you rewarded with as a consequence?

What did you find as a result of your "digging"?

Ask, Seek and Knock for the holy Spirit as outlined in Luke 11:5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread[d] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

The reward was the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is manifest through Spiritual fruit at first: Gal5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

If you are faithful to these fruit the Spirit will endow you with a gift. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...nthians+12

If your faithful with your gifts you will receive others and receive oppertunities to use them.

My further digging has lead me to all sorts of ministiries and oppertunities to serve or to be serve by others in such a way as to see and experience God through his messengers and the messages they provide.
I have specifics I want to save for open threads everyone can be apart of. I will however answer any specific questions you may have concerning any part of my Spiritual life.
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07-02-2014, 08:28 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(Please try not to give such convoluted answers that imply so many different things at once, because there are now multiple questions I might ask in return. But if I do so, that would lead to even longer answers, which would give rise to even more questions and so on. That is why I set up the rule "posts should be kept as short as possible".)

I will just pick one question in return and it is a yes or no question:

Did I understand you correctly? The reward for being faithful was the "holy spirit", which then granted you "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control"?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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07-02-2014, 09:17 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(07-02-2014 08:28 PM)Youkay Wrote:  (Please try not to give such convoluted answers that imply so many different things at once, because there are now multiple questions I might ask in return. But if I do so, that would lead to even longer answers, which would give rise to even more questions and so on. That is why I set up the rule "posts should be kept as short as possible".)

I will just pick one question in return and it is a yes or no question:

Did I understand you correctly? The reward for being faithful was the "holy spirit", which then granted you "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control"?

No.

We ask seek and knock for the Holy Spirit. We are then granted a measure of the Holy Spirit. This measure at the very least will manifest itself in spiritual fruit, which is what you listed.
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07-02-2014, 09:58 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
OK, so you receive not the whole Holy Spirit, but only a measure of it.

Do you think "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" is not obtainable if you are not granted with a "measure of the holy spirit"?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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08-02-2014, 06:47 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(07-02-2014 09:58 PM)Youkay Wrote:  OK, so you receive not the whole Holy Spirit, but only a measure of it.

Do you think "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" is not obtainable if you are not granted with a "measure of the holy spirit"?

Yes, we only receive a measure. Usually a small measure at first. If we are faithful to what we have been given according to Christ we will be given more. If not then what we have been given will be taken back and given to someone who was.

The attributes you mention are obtainable by anyone if they work at it.

What makes spiritual fruit different is the extended capacity one is given in all of those areas, with little personal time invested in them.

I do have personal experiences and can tell you how these attributes manifested in me personally with out my knowledge of this list. If that is the way you want to go.
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08-02-2014, 10:14 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(08-02-2014 06:47 PM)Drich Wrote:  The attributes you mention are obtainable by anyone if they work at it.

What makes spiritual fruit different is the extended capacity one is given in all of those areas, with little personal time invested in them.

So what you are saying is :

1) The attributes that you mentioned (not me, you did it. just to be clear) are obtainable by other means. But then it would require more work and it would be harder.

2) Having a "measure of the holy spirit" makes it easier to obtain these attributes. At the same time, these attributes are somehow stronger.


Do I understand your quote correctly?

(PS: Regarding your suggestion, I do not want to hear your personal experiences at this point)

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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08-02-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(08-02-2014 10:14 PM)Youkay Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 06:47 PM)Drich Wrote:  The attributes you mention are obtainable by anyone if they work at it.

What makes spiritual fruit different is the extended capacity one is given in all of those areas, with little personal time invested in them.

So what you are saying is :

1) The attributes that you mentioned (not me, you did it. just to be clear) are obtainable by other means. But then it would require more work and it would be harder.

2) Having a "measure of the holy spirit" makes it easier to obtain these attributes. At the same time, these attributes are somehow stronger.


Do I understand your quote correctly?

(PS: Regarding your suggestion, I do not want to hear your personal experiences at this point)
Yes.

The spiritual fruit, are generally a starting point for someone who has been given a measure of the Spirit while others work to obtain these same attribute.
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09-02-2014, 01:51 AM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
On which basis do you claim that it is difficult for non-christian people who do not posses a "measure of the holy spirit" to find love, joy or kindness? Comparison? Psychological study?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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09-02-2014, 07:01 AM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(09-02-2014 01:51 AM)Youkay Wrote:  On which basis do you claim that it is difficult for non-christian people who do not posses a "measure of the holy spirit" to find love, joy or kindness? Comparison? Psychological study?

Simple observation. There is a religion dedicated to obtaining these qualities, (among others) through a series of disciplines, and rituals. Typically much hardship is endured before Spiritual fruit level 'enlightenment' is obtained. If these qualities were natural or a given as with Christianity, so much direction and effort would not be needed to hone in on these attributes.

In Christianity Paul tells us these are just evidences of one who has obtained the Holy Spirit. Not that we should work to obtain them.
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09-02-2014, 10:05 AM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(09-02-2014 07:01 AM)Drich Wrote:  Simple observation. There is a religion dedicated to obtaining these qualities, (among others) through a series of disciplines, and rituals. Typically much hardship is endured before Spiritual fruit level 'enlightenment' is obtained. If these qualities were natural or a given as with Christianity, so much direction and effort would not be needed to hone in on these attributes.

In Christianity Paul tells us these are just evidences of one who has obtained the Holy Spirit. Not that we should work to obtain them.

So you claim knowledge that for me having love, joy, kindness and so on in my life was more difficult than for you. That is quite a condescending thing to say. But never mind that.

You said "simple observation". How can you tell that a person, who is not christian had a difficult time obtaining love, joy and kindness? What are the indicators/criteria for that observation?


As a specific example: How/according to which criteria do you compare two children and find that for the christian child it is easier to love his parents and have joy with his friends than for the non-christian child?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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