Drich, let's have a round
Thread Closed 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-02-2014, 10:16 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(15-02-2014 11:48 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Every time you use your personal experience to claim something extraordinary, it is anecdotal.
only if your trying to appeal to a popular dismissal without having to address content. Which I do not blame you at this point because you would be painting yourself into a corner otherwise. You want to use this general sweeping dismissal because the 'personal experience' I offer has been extended to you as well.

You know as well as I do that personal experience can only be dismissed if the experience being described is not reproducible in any reasonable way. This is not true with what is being discussed here. Matter of fact, I'd be willing to guess that God's offer has been taken up billions of times over the last two thousand years.. Going against numbers like that I can see why you would at least try to take control of the conversation and appeal to my pride by trying to trivialize my comment and attempt to put me on the defensive.. Sorry old sport, you might want to regroup and try something else.
Why?
Personal experience is a valid form of relaying fact, if indeed those facts can be verified, even if it is just on a one on one basis. Business use personal experience, this 'word of mouth' makes or breaks small business all of the time. Someone has a good experience at my shop tell 3 friends. one checks us out, and brings us something to work on, and tells three more because he found what the first guy said to be true. Verifiable personal experience is what God offers to everyone who A/S/Ks as outlined by Luke 11.
I am simply telling you if you go to this place and do x, y, z you will be taken care of.

Quote:It doesn't matter if you give me a passage in the bible that says you will be rewarded with a "spiritual fruit". You are the one saying that the bible is true because according to your personal experience you indeed received the "spiritual fruit". All this is anecdotal.
are you being obstinate? Or are you just so desperate for material to argue, you are knowingly and willfully employing strawmen? You made this false claim last time, I asked you to show me where I said this and you quoted a passage that specifically said that spiritual fruit was only one step in a process... And here you are again, you have returned to this dry well. Was it your hope that I did not know I crushed your argument the first time around, or are you just at a complete loss for material and simply need to drive a point?




Quote:You do not get it, so let us reverse the game, to better demonstrate:

I have got a friend. My friend used to be christian for 40 years. He even studied theology and was so devout, he claimed he had received the "spiritual fruit" and "enlightenment". But he heard that Scientology was promising the same things. In fact, a Scientology priest approached him and promised him these things. He thought he would give Scientology a try to prove the Scientology priest wrong. A REAL try.

Because he was a humble, honest and fair soul, he did not try to cheat his way out, but followed Scientology as if he was absolutely serious in joining the religion. Later, he realized the promises were all true. The spiritual gifts and the enlightenment he received were far greater than what he had previously experienced from all those devout years in Christianity. And now he is out there, preaching so people would convert to Scientology.

What would your response be to my friend?
Nothing. He has made his choice in this life..

I am not here to sell Christianity despite what has been said by our forum mates. I am here to answer questions and provide scriptural clarity about, God, the bible and Christianity in general. Why? So one can make a decision about God/their eternity with Him. God has given everyone a choice to make. If God has seen fit to give people this choice, then who am I to say they made the wrong one for themselves? My job is to simply help facilitate that choice with what ever I have been given to help them with. Once the choice is made and the questions stop my task is complete.

That said if you want to help your friend anchor/tether yourself to The Rock and jump in after him.
-or-
Watch him be swept out to sea, your choice.

If you want to know what the bible says about 'false religions' (like, but not limited to Scientology) then ask.

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
Find all posts by this user
15-02-2014, 11:47 PM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2014 12:00 AM by Youkay.)
RE: Drich, let's have a round
delete

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
Find all posts by this user
15-02-2014, 11:56 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
Youkay Wrote:You do not get it, so let us reverse the game, to better demonstrate:

I have got a friend. My friend used to be christian for 40 years. He even studied theology and was so devout, he claimed he had received the "spiritual fruit" and "enlightenment". But he heard that Scientology was promising the same things. In fact, a Scientology priest approached him and promised him these things. He thought he would give Scientology a try to prove the Scientology priest wrong. A REAL try.

Because he was a humble, honest and fair soul, he did not try to cheat his way out, but followed Scientology as if he was absolutely serious in joining the religion. Later, he realized the promises were all true. The spiritual gifts and the enlightenment he received were far greater than what he had previously experienced from all those devout years in Christianity. And now he is out there, preaching so people would convert to Scientology.

What would your response be to my friend?
Drich Wrote:Nothing. He has made his choice in this life..

[...]

That said if you want to help your friend anchor/tether yourself to The Rock and jump in after him.
-or-
Watch him be swept out to sea, your choice.


If you want to know what the bible says about 'false religions' (like, but not limited to Scientology) then ask.

You are saying that his religion is false based on what the bible says (which he has studied for 7 years during theology and followed for 40 years of his life) and dismissing his personal experience, which is anecdotal evidence. You do so by disingenuously claiming that you don't mind if he thinks Scientology is true but then openly stating that his religion and many others are false. Also, for someone who truly believes that that person would go to hell and suffer in excruciating misery for eternity, your indifference to his fate is quite malicious.

Why exactly are you dismissing his anecdotal evidence, which is contradictory to your claim and the bible?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
Find all posts by this user
16-02-2014, 10:09 AM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(15-02-2014 11:56 PM)Youkay Wrote:  You are saying that his religion is false based on what the bible says (which he has studied for 7 years during theology and followed for 40 years of his life) and dismissing his personal experience, which is
I have said no words against his personal experience. I believe he has truly experienced something. My message is directed towards the source if his experience. You have assumed by my identification of Scientology being a false religion, means that it is empty or completely without Merritt. Again I have no doubt that people of all religion experience something, despite what you people think religious people are not just worshiping in emptiness. All I am saying is that experience is not from the God of the bible. There are many many sources a side from the God of the bible that seek adoration and worship from us for various reasons. As such are willing to give us what we are looking for in exchange for our attention.

Quote:You do so by disingenuously claiming that you don't mind if he thinks Scientology is true but then openly stating that his religion and many others are false. Also, for someone who truly believes that that person would go to hell and suffer in excruciating misery for eternity, your indifference to his fate is quite malicious.
ahh, no.

Quote:Why exactly are you dismissing his anecdotal evidence, which is contradictory to your claim and the bible?
Considering what I just said can you still ask this question?

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
Find all posts by this user
16-02-2014, 11:26 AM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
Youkay Wrote:(...)Later, he realized the promises were all true. The spiritual gifts and the enlightenment he received were far greater than what he had previously experienced from all those devout years in Christianity.
Youkay Wrote:You are saying that his religion is false based on what the bible says (which he has studied for 7 years during theology and followed for 40 years of his life) and dismissing his personal experience.
Youkay Wrote:Why exactly are you dismissing his anecdotal evidence, which is contradictory to your claim and the bible?
Drich Wrote:I have said no words against his personal experience. I believe he has truly experienced something.(...) All I am saying is that experience is not from the God of the bible. There are many many sources a side from the God of the bible that seek adoration and worship from us for various reasons. As such are willing to give us what we are looking for in exchange for our attention.
Drich Wrote:Considering what I just said can you still ask this question?

No, I can't. I didn't know that you believe that people can receive greater "spiritual gifts" and greater "enlightment" by other means than from the God of the bible.

Before I continue, can you please confirm if I understood correctly?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
Find all posts by this user
16-02-2014, 09:28 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(16-02-2014 11:26 AM)Youkay Wrote:  
Youkay Wrote:(...)Later, he realized the promises were all true. The spiritual gifts and the enlightenment he received were far greater than what he had previously experienced from all those devout years in Christianity.
Youkay Wrote:You are saying that his religion is false based on what the bible says (which he has studied for 7 years during theology and followed for 40 years of his life) and dismissing his personal experience.
Youkay Wrote:Why exactly are you dismissing his anecdotal evidence, which is contradictory to your claim and the bible?
Drich Wrote:I have said no words against his personal experience. I believe he has truly experienced something.(...) All I am saying is that experience is not from the God of the bible. There are many many sources a side from the God of the bible that seek adoration and worship from us for various reasons. As such are willing to give us what we are looking for in exchange for our attention.
Drich Wrote:Considering what I just said can you still ask this question?

No, I can't. I didn't know that you believe that people can receive greater "spiritual gifts" and greater "enlightment" by other means than from the God of the bible.

Before I continue, can you please confirm if I understood correctly?

For you this should have been confirmed when I acknowledged the various daili lamas as being the height of secular/non-God enlightenment.

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
Find all posts by this user
16-02-2014, 09:35 PM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
So how is it that a fulfilled promise regarding "spiritual gifts" makes Christianity true, but when other religions fulfill their "spiritual gift" promises, they are still false?

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
Find all posts by this user
17-02-2014, 07:57 AM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
(16-02-2014 09:35 PM)Youkay Wrote:  So how is it that a fulfilled promise regarding "spiritual gifts" makes Christianity true, but when other religions fulfill their "spiritual gift" promises, they are still false?

This was asked and answered on page 2. Your orginal acknoweledgement of this concept is found in post 16. Am i still speaking to the same person or is the account been handed off to someone else?

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
Find all posts by this user
17-02-2014, 08:00 AM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
You know in the MMA when one's opponet can no longer defend himself the match is called.

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
Find all posts by this user
17-02-2014, 08:16 AM
RE: Drich, let's have a round
I didn't understand that you believe there are other religions which promise "spiritual gifts" and "enlightenment" which are greater than that what christianity has to offer. Thanks for the confirmation.

And stop nominating yourself the victor of a "debate". You are ridiculing yourself. First, this is not a proper debate, which is obvious if you just look at the format of our conversation. And second, language can be tricky and people might misunderstand each other. In that case, asking to confirm one's understanding is helpful. And third, there is no need for a winner in a debate.


Now that I understand your position, namely that there are religions that promise and reward even greater "spiritual gifts" and "enlightenment" than what Christianity has to offer, I must say I am confused.

Actually, you repeatedly confirmed that the promises of Christianity are lower than those of Scientology (and possibly other religions, as you have indicated). (http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...pid496605)

That means that Christianity is not special? It means that fulfilled promises like "spiritual gifts" and "enlightenment" don't make a religion true, because all religions have those rewards and not all religions can be possibly true (you yourself talked about other religions being false)?

I am honestly, genuinely confused. I am not trying to make a point here. Really.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 
Forum Jump: