Drichicism and similar... explained.
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26-02-2014, 11:57 PM
Drichicism and similar... explained.
I'll start by confessing that this is an opinion.

I have not read everything that all the theists here, write. One gets the measure of e.g. excubitor, PJ and theword quite quickly and for me, it soon becomes boring ... there is nothing new to learn.

But, for a change, I tried a debate with Drich recently and although it didn't even get started before it stopped, it did highlight quite nicely the different mindset of a typical theist.

Again, I have read very little of Drich's output mainly for reasons to do with what I have called... syntactic relativism, i.e. it's just too painful to read with insufficient ROI.

To explain what I think is going on, have a read of the following, which Dan Dennett describes (at around the 57 minute mark in the vid below) as probably unintentionally candid.
Quote:...
Personal testimony calls for an epistemology quite distinct from the scientific, as commonly understood.

The scientist treats the datum to be investigated as a passive object to be mastered and brought within the investigator’s intellectual horizons.

Interpretations proffered by others are not accepted on authority but are tested by critical probing.

But when we proceed by testimony, the situation is very different. The event is an interpersonal encounter, in which the witness plays an active role, making an impact upon us. Without in any way compelling us to believe, the witness calls for a free assent that involves personal respect and trust. To reject the message is to withhold confidence in the witness. To accept it is a trusting submission to the witness’s authority. To the extent that we believe, we renounce our autonomy and willingly depend on the judgment of others.
...
-- Cardinal Dulles

... emphasis, mine.

So, I conclude that Drich, excubitor and their ilk get upset and frustrated with us and see our skepticism as personal rebuke because we are effectively calling their integrity into question.

Dennett offers a way of responding, politely, to the personal-witnessing thing...

Look, you are playing the 'witnessing' card and you leave me no choice but to be rude. I can't accept what you say and so I have to tell you that I can't accept it and that does impugn your honesty.




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27-02-2014, 12:09 AM
RE: Drichicism and similar... explained.
Good quote. Very key in a lot of respects, for a lot of theist. Ultimately what it always comes down to when you strip it all away, if they are of the type prone to lack of introspection.

...
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27-02-2014, 12:15 AM
RE: Drichicism and similar... explained.
I like his quote, "You are incredible...not in the positive way."

...
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27-02-2014, 12:18 AM
RE: Drichicism and similar... explained.
Geezus effing Christ...you know you're just stoking his already over inflated ego by creating threads devoted to him, right? I mean, if you want to feed the trolls, at least don't give them an all you can eat buffet.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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27-02-2014, 12:56 AM
RE: Drichicism and similar... explained.
(27-02-2014 12:18 AM)toadaly Wrote:  Geezus effing Christ...you know you're just stoking his already over inflated ego by creating threads devoted to him, right? I mean, if you want to feed the trolls, at least don't give them an all you can eat buffet.

On the other hand, if you want to grow a culture in a petri dish, in order to investigate it and discover a vaccine, you have to feed it first.

Drinking Beverage

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27-02-2014, 01:17 AM
RE: Drichicism and similar... explained.
Not only do I take issue with the testimonies of believers, but I take issue with their fondness of taking offence. What is so difficult about people expecting more than just a personal testimony? I have access to friends of many different faiths who on request would supply me with many different personal testimonies and statements of faith and belief. Not only have they been acquired by identical means, but the results are conflicting.

Even when I was a believer I was patient and understanding when presented with disbelief. I noted that within his testimony and personal history, Joseph Smith, said that if he had not experienced his heavenly visitations, which I believed in at that time, he would not believe his own story. I wish more believers held that same attitude.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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27-02-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: Drichicism and similar... explained.
(27-02-2014 12:09 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Good quote. Very key in a lot of respects, for a lot of theist. Ultimately what it always comes down to when you strip it all away, if they are of the type prone to lack of introspection.

That's what it was for me.
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27-02-2014, 10:56 AM
RE: Drichicism and similar... explained.
(27-02-2014 12:56 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(27-02-2014 12:18 AM)toadaly Wrote:  Geezus effing Christ...you know you're just stoking his already over inflated ego by creating threads devoted to him, right? I mean, if you want to feed the trolls, at least don't give them an all you can eat buffet.

On the other hand, if you want to grow a culture in a petri dish, in order to investigate it and discover a vaccine, you have to feed it first.

Drinking Beverage

Great post DLJ! You're completely correct. One of the things that I've noticed of many of the theists who come here specifically to confront atheists on an "atheist forum" is because they also readily believe and wish to be ridiculed of their belief. They'll even remind us that it's written in the bible it will happen.

They know it will happen and welcome it, because they truly believe they are supposed to fall on the sword of christ. They aren't challenged much with their own ilk -- unless their personal belief falls way outside the box. I believe Drich and some of the other's who come here, Alla, PJ et al, come here to defend their 'belief' and hope to be ridiculed for it so maybe in some offhanded way they show their deity that they do love them.

I think on some strange level they do it to only to curry favor with their god. Sometimes I cringe at the insults we (collectively) toss at them because it gives them what they want. They receive that rush of righteous indignation and it makes them feel better about their belief. Confirmation bias at its best.

I went to christian forum (didn't join) once and saw several posts about how some had gone to various atheist forums to spread the good news and they talked gleefully how they horribly they were treated. Some even copied (with foul language redacted) posts to demonstrate how poorly they were treated. They received much praise for their efforts because this is what is supposed to happen.

Thumbsup


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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27-02-2014, 12:00 PM
Drichicism and similar... explained.
This seems like a very accurate description. If you look at the atheists who attempt to argue their position without personal testimony, the only strategy they have available is to narrow the field of discussion to a topic they know has less supporting evidence than others (like abiogenesis), demand evidence, dismiss the evidence, and then claim victory without supporting their claims.

Alphabet Soup Male has trolled two threads in this manner which had absolutely nothing to do with abiogenesis until he brought it up.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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27-02-2014, 12:13 PM
RE: Drichicism and similar... explained.
(27-02-2014 10:56 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I think on some strange level they do it to only to curry favor with their god.
This. Thumbsup

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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