Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
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21-01-2016, 09:06 AM
Wink Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
A couple days ago I posted that in a thread - not as a question, but as an assertion. I also stated that drugs are good for temporary symptom management.

Lots of folks seemed to not read past the first statement, and got offended by it immediately.

Well recently we got the news of the death of Eagles co-founder Glenn Frey. His cause of death was pneumonia. One of the side effects of the meds he was taking for his rheumatoid arthritis is ulcerative colitis, and that med plus the med he was taking to combat the colitis both leave you highly exposed to infections such as pneumonia. People around him seem convinced that the meds are in part responsible for his too-early demise.

So back to my statement.

Health is a state of physical and mental well being.
While the drugs apparently helped alleviate Frey's symptoms, their undesirable but unavoidable effects also apparently killed him. That is not health, is it??

Health is better pursued via your choices of nourishment (diet) and activity (exercise) and mental intake (choices of acquaintances, entertainment, information, etc) than by attempting to purchase it as a quick fix at the RiteAid counter.

Drugs are temporary symptom management.
They are not health.
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21-01-2016, 09:35 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
I can see why people took exception to your view.

(21-01-2016 09:06 AM)coyote Wrote:  Health is better pursued via your choices of nourishment (diet) and activity (exercise) and mental intake (choices of acquaintances, entertainment, information, etc) than by attempting to purchase it as a quick fix at the RiteAid counter.

Health is best pursued under the guidance of a trained medical professional. The patient in question has an obligation to do their own research and to understand as much as they can about their condition and the medical professional's treatment plan.

Diet, physical and mental activity all contribute to your overall health. However there are chronic medical conditions that require drug treatment.

Mental illnesses such as depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, etc. all require drugs to treat effectively.

Diabetes is another. So is arthritis. Heart disease, kidney, liver, chronic pain, autoimmune disorders. All require drug regimens. While diet/physical/mental states can help or hinder, drug treatments are required.

Family members of mine suffer from rheumatoid arthritis. The disease is debilitating. Plain and simple. I have seen them endure crippling pain and swollen, twisted joints that were only eased by the drug treatments.

(21-01-2016 09:06 AM)coyote Wrote:  Drugs are temporary symptom management.
They are not health.
Drugs are a tool to get healthy. You weigh the potential benefits against the potential side effects. You monitor for side effects and when the negatives outweigh the positives you alter the treatment.

For you to advocate avoidance of all drugs in favor of lifestyle changes is absurd.

Are you at all familiar with the medications and conditions involved?
What is your medical background?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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21-01-2016, 10:07 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(21-01-2016 09:06 AM)coyote Wrote:  A couple days ago I posted that in a thread - not as a question, but as an assertion. I also stated that drugs are good for temporary symptom management.

Lots of folks seemed to not read past the first statement, and got offended by it immediately.

Well recently we got the news of the death of Eagles co-founder Glenn Frey. His cause of death was pneumonia. One of the side effects of the meds he was taking for his rheumatoid arthritis is ulcerative colitis, and that med plus the med he was taking to combat the colitis both leave you highly exposed to infections such as pneumonia. People around him seem convinced that the meds are in part responsible for his too-early demise.

So back to my statement.

Health is a state of physical and mental well being.
While the drugs apparently helped alleviate Frey's symptoms, their undesirable but unavoidable effects also apparently killed him. That is not health, is it??

Health is better pursued via your choices of nourishment (diet) and activity (exercise) and mental intake (choices of acquaintances, entertainment, information, etc) than by attempting to purchase it as a quick fix at the RiteAid counter.

Drugs are temporary symptom management.
They are not health.

What about antibiotics, antivirals, and vaccinations? Your simplistic view is not constructive.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-01-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(21-01-2016 09:35 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I can see why people took exception to your view.
For you to advocate avoidance of all drugs in favor of lifestyle changes is absurd.

Are you at all familiar with the medications and conditions involved?
What is your medical background?

Ahhhh, now I get it.

It's sooo easy for those wishing to be offended to leap past my statement that drugs are a useful tool for temporary symptom management, and zoom right in on their assumption that I am advocating avoidance of all drugs! Which if you actually READ what I said about drug usefulness, it becomes immediately apparent that I am not advocating avoidance of all drugs.

But you are welcome to your assumption. Regardless of the well-known side effects of assumptions. lol
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21-01-2016, 10:12 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
Life expectancy trends indicate that your view is not correct.

A person with a good diet and exercise routine and a healthy BMI can still have hypertension, or diabetes, or schizophrenia, or arthritis, or any number of health conditions that need to be controlled with medication in addition to lifestyle.

And for people without a perfect BMI or diet, medications can be the first step in a positive direction. You feel better, you can start taking care of yourself better.
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21-01-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(21-01-2016 10:11 AM)coyote Wrote:  Ahhhh, now I get it.

It's sooo easy for those wishing to be offended to leap past my statement that drugs are a useful tool for temporary symptom management, and zoom right in on their assumption that I am advocating avoidance of all drugs! Which if you actually READ what I said about drug usefulness, it becomes immediately apparent that I am not advocating avoidance of all drugs.

But you are welcome to your assumption. Regardless of the well-known side effects of assumptions. lol

Your avoidance of my questions is telling.

You advocated avoiding long term drug treatment, using the death of a celebrity as an example.

Many medical conditions are beyond our medical skill to heal. Thus, symptom management via drugs is often all that is possible. This seems to be the case with Frey, and is certainly the case with my family members.

My assumption was certainly implied by what you posted.

Quote:While the drugs apparently helped alleviate Frey's symptoms, their undesirable but unavoidable effects also apparently killed him. That is not health, is it??
Health is better pursued via your choices of nourishment (diet) and activity (exercise) and mental intake (choices of acquaintances, entertainment, information, etc) than by attempting to purchase it as a quick fix at the RiteAid counter.
Drugs are temporary symptom management.
They are not health.

Are saying that my assumption was unreasonable, given what you posted?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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21-01-2016, 10:40 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
Hint: drug is an ill-defined term.

OP: what is your definition and understanding of it?

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21-01-2016, 11:20 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
It's not that drugs are bad, it's that there is not enough testing. Everything is chemistry and interacts. The drugs interact with each other, they interact with your body chemistry, they interact with environmental chemistry, they interact with your food and drink etc. etc. etc..

Ideally there would be a way to test for all these interactions for each individual. As a matter of fact, I suspect that we would find some interesting cures if we were able to do such exhaustive, fine tuned tests on all individuals, sick or not. But alas, this isn't happening - yet.

The best you can do is ask your doc a lot of questions (because there are lazy or incompetent docs too) and then go do your own research before embarking on a regimen. If you find things that don't look good, get back with your doc and ask for an alternative drug - there usually are some.

Blind trust in the medical system is just as bad as rejecting treatments. Due diligence is important.

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21-01-2016, 11:32 AM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2016 08:26 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(21-01-2016 09:06 AM)coyote Wrote:  A couple days ago I posted that in a thread - not as a question, but as an assertion. I also stated that drugs are good for temporary symptom management.

Lots of folks seemed to not read past the first statement, and got offended by it immediately.

Well recently we got the news of the death of Eagles co-founder Glenn Frey. His cause of death was pneumonia. One of the side effects of the meds he was taking for his rheumatoid arthritis is ulcerative colitis, and that med plus the med he was taking to combat the colitis both leave you highly exposed to infections such as pneumonia. People around him seem convinced that the meds are in part responsible for his too-early demise.

So back to my statement.

Health is a state of physical and mental well being.
While the drugs apparently helped alleviate Frey's symptoms, their undesirable but unavoidable effects also apparently killed him. That is not health, is it??

Health is better pursued via your choices of nourishment (diet) and activity (exercise) and mental intake (choices of acquaintances, entertainment, information, etc) than by attempting to purchase it as a quick fix at the RiteAid counter.

Drugs are temporary symptom management.
They are not health.

Nope. We see TONS of long term chronic states (such as hyperlipedemia) in patients who are eventally hospialized for them. The only way we now know to keep them healthy is by taking pharmeceuticals. Your statement is highly simplistc. Diabetics, whose pancreases don't produce insulin, have no other alternative. They DIE without them. I saw a pt come in last week with a blood sugar of 1000 +. She promptly expired.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-01-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
You're using only one data point. If you're going to try to argue that an entire system is ineffective in the long term because of one data point, that's pathetic. Need more data to demonstrate that drugs are ineffective in the long-term.

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