Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
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29-01-2016, 04:09 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
I'm an insulin dependant diabetic.

No, my weight and diet did not contribute to the onset of my diabetes. It is suspected that it was an immune response to severe trauma (hit by a car when I was seven, two months in traction, two mor in a body cast).

"Hormone" doesn't remove synthetic insulin from the drug category.

Yes, I consider "shooting insulin" to be healthy living. Especially since the alternative is the antithesis of health. That is, certain death.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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29-01-2016, 04:55 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  Sorry this enrages so many of you.

No, your dismissal of something that is quite literally keeping people alive, as somehow the antithesis of their health, is what is so annoying. Your broad generalizations, lacking in nuance and depth, is what we find annoying. And yes, simple answers to complex and multi-layered questions and problems, is what we find annoying.

You want to push a particular narrative, and you ignore contradictory evidence. We have little patience for this here.

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29-01-2016, 05:53 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  To those who mentioned antibiotics: I work in a hospital. I've seen doctors prescribe those for the common cold. Which is bad, because they destroy the balance of bacteria in your gut. Oh, and the overuse of them has given us 'super-bugs' that are resistant to virtually all treatment. You think antibiotics= health? Go ask the risk management dept at your local hospital. Health is natural resistance; antibiotics are a drastic intervention that you want to avoid unless absolutely necessary.
I only noticed people in the thread mentioning antibiotics in regards to bacterial infections, not colds (or viral infections). As far as I know, antibiotics are imperative to getting over bacterial infections.

Antibiotics are definitely over-prescribed for non-B.I. things like colds that will eventually subside, though. Or... in my case... a viral infection when I was younger. When I had mono, the nurse practitioner I saw wanted to put me on some antibiotics. I questioned her about it, because in the days leading up to finally going to the doctor I'd knew that mono was one of my symptoms and saw that antibiotics were no bueno for it. She looked at me for a few seconds like I was an audacious idiot for asking that, and then told me, "They are for your (swollen) tonsils to go back down..." Never went to see her again after that. Anyway, I digress.

(29-01-2016 04:09 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I'm an insulin dependant diabetic.

No, my weight and diet did not contribute to the onset of my diabetes. It is suspected that it was an immune response to severe trauma (hit by a car when I was seven, two months in traction, two mor in a body cast).

"Hormone" doesn't remove synthetic insulin from the drug category.

Yes, I consider "shooting insulin" to be healthy living. Especially since the alternative is the antithesis of health. That is, certain death.
I had class last year with a type 1 diabetic who became inflicted as a kid when he got sick, a common cold he said, where his cells attacked his pancreas (if I recall; damn it, we need our residential biologist RocketSurgeon76 up in here).

One of my uncles passed away at the age of 44 in 2002; he was a diabetic. Couldn't give up his favorite southern meals, like beans, potatoes and cornbread. He lost a leg before a heart attack via the affliction took his life. Insulin allowed him to live for as long as he did, but of course, he didn't take care of himself. My neighbor is in her late 60s, a bad diabetic for certain, eats like crap, was virtually in a coma for nearly two weeks this past August for it and still hasn't learned her lesson. However, thanks to -- I think -- her insulin pump, she subsists.

I hope that one day a cure will be found. I wish you much richness in health, brother.
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29-01-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 09:18 AM)UndauntedToast Wrote:  You guys are probably going to want to punch me for bumping this topic, but deal with it.Heart

The OP probably meant well and with no maliciousness, but whatever.

Prescription medication for ailments that are life threatening with the prospect of a faster death being inevitable without them, fair play. Absolutely (obviously) necessary.

I am tired of doctors who merely exist to be legal drug dealers, though.

My girlfriend went for a little doctorly exam this morning. Her blood pressure was slightly elevated, and the doctor already wants to put her on BP medication. Ugh. With something like that, that can be largely helped through factors like diet, vitamin/mineral supplementation, regular exercise and managing stress or using relaxation techniques. Everybody is always a little on edge at the doctors office, so an elevation in BP is run of the mill. This is a new doctor that she's seeing, and it's unsettling to me that this doc wants to go ahead and put her on it. Boo.

Back in September 2014, I went to see a young nurse practitioner. It was the first time being in a doctor's office since January 2009. My blood pressure was through the roof. I was having extreme anxiety. She wanted to put me on BP medication! The times I've checked my BP at random points since have all been in the normal and/or optimal range.

In this case, too many quacks want to patch the problem, NOT solve the problem.

Note: the above has nothing to do with medicine that's virtually mandatory to survival. Just had to deliver that tangent after speaking with my girlfriend this morning.
Thank you for grasping the intent of my post.

To those who mentioned antibiotics: I work in a hospital. I've seen doctors prescribe those for the common cold. Which is bad, because they destroy the balance of bacteria in your gut. Oh, and the overuse of them has given us 'super-bugs' that are resistant to virtually all treatment. You think antibiotics= health? Go ask the risk management dept at your local hospital. Health is natural resistance; antibiotics are a drastic intervention that you want to avoid unless absolutely necessary.

Insulin is a hormone, not a drug. But those of you on it who are Type 2, tell me: did your weight and your food choices contribute to the onset of your diabetes? Is shooting insulin twice a day your idea of healthy living?

Are any of you regular users of acetaminophen?
Did you know that it is directly associated with acute liver failure, even at recommended doses? That if you combine it with alcohol, your risk of kidney damage rises significantly?

Sorry this enrages so many of you.

You seem to believe that most chronic health conditions are due to moral failings, and that people don't deserve to have relief from them until they've abased themselves to your satisfaction. A poor diet is a poor diet, not a sin. There's no such thing as sin.

Why is it so important for you to feel superior to someone who has type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure that's partly due to lifestyle choices? People who run six miles a day also develop medical problems from doing that, just a different set (joint problems like arthritis, for example), which are also due to their lifestyles.

Sometimes a person needs to feel better--for example, with their blood pressure controlled with a medication--before attacking controllable factors contributing to the condition. And even then, with those factors neutralized, many people continue to need medication, especially in middle age and older. Moralizing about the causes of conditions just makes people who could benefit from treatment decide not to attempt it.

You seem to have a problem with medical professionals and their decision-making process, also. (for example, thinking a "young nurse practitioner doesn't know about white-coat hypertension, thinking the doctors in your hospital are ignorant about the effects of antibiotics) Makes me curious about a possible sour grapes syndrome: were you planning on going to medical school at some point and weren't able to make that happen?
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29-01-2016, 08:01 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  To those who mentioned antibiotics: I work in a hospital. I've seen doctors prescribe those for the common cold. Which is bad, because they destroy the balance of bacteria in your gut.
Yes, powerful antibiotics can wipe out ALL bacteria in the body, including in the gut. However, eating a couple of servings of live-culture yogurt will solve the problem.

(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  Insulin is a hormone, not a drug.
Yes it is. And many of the anti-depression drugs are chemicals that are already created inside your brain. Drugs are not always foreign chemicals. The designation "drug" would still apply to insulin. Don't play word games.

(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  But those of you on it who are Type 2, tell me: did your weight and your food choices contribute to the onset of your diabetes? Is shooting insulin twice a day your idea of healthy living?
This is a very borderline comment/question. As other posters noted, it has an overtly negative judgment.

While lifestyle choices can play a major role in your health, other factors such as genetics, environment and chance are equally important. While many patients lifestyles contribute to or even cause their illness, many others with healthy lifestyles are similarly afflicted.

(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  Are any of you regular users of acetaminophen?
Did you know that it is directly associated with acute liver failure, even at recommended doses? That if you combine it with alcohol, your risk of kidney damage rises significantly?
A patient should not take any medication or drug without being aware of the side-effects. Mixing drugs, as in your alcohol-acetaminophen example, can produce additional or different side-effects. Again, patients should make themselves aware of this.

Negative side-effects (not all side-effects are negative) have to be considered and balanced against the positive effects of the drug and the disease itself.

(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  Sorry this enrages so many of you.
As others have noted, it is your tone and broad generalizations that are irritating.

Most people would avoid taking medicinal drugs if they could. Many of us cannot.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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29-01-2016, 11:05 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(28-01-2016 11:41 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 09:06 AM)coyote Wrote:  A couple days ago I posted that in a thread - not as a question, but as an assertion. I also stated that drugs are good for temporary symptom management.

Lots of folks seemed to not read past the first statement, and got offended by it immediately.

Well recently we got the news of the death of Eagles co-founder Glenn Frey. His cause of death was pneumonia. One of the side effects of the meds he was taking for his rheumatoid arthritis is ulcerative colitis, and that med plus the med he was taking to combat the colitis both leave you highly exposed to infections such as pneumonia. People around him seem convinced that the meds are in part responsible for his too-early demise.

So back to my statement.

Health is a state of physical and mental well being.
While the drugs apparently helped alleviate Frey's symptoms, their undesirable but unavoidable effects also apparently killed him. That is not health, is it??

Health is better pursued via your choices of nourishment (diet) and activity (exercise) and mental intake (choices of acquaintances, entertainment, information, etc) than by attempting to purchase it as a quick fix at the RiteAid counter.

Drugs are temporary symptom management.
They are not health.

Simplistic answers to complex issues are rarely a good thing...

Unless you are in a position to read all of Glenn Frey's medical history, you are simply speculating and adding a dose of your own confirmation bias to the mix.

Telling people they don't need their medications can be dangerous.

While your at it, maybe you can explain how you can reverse type 1 diabetes? I know one adult with it, he's had it since he was a kid.

I'm sure he'd love to stop taking insulin and checking his blood sugar.

Again, you are projecting your assumption of what I said rather than grasping what I actually said.

Nowhere did I advocate abandonment of medications that are keeping people alive.

But as a strictly anecdotal reply, I know plenty of people who have made the effort to get their bodies back into decent shape. Not stupid crash diets, but proper slow progress eating just a little less and exercising just a little more. And a consequence for many has been, after some months, improved blood pressure, to the point that their BP meds become unnecessary. And then the side effects of those meds disappear, and their need for stomach meds to counteract those effects also fades. And the headaches go away, and the need for the liver-scorching acetaminophen fades. And a healthy liver regulates bloodstream contents better than a compromised liver, and therefore the cells work more optimally....

Etc. Just through appropriate and effective food choices and exercise.
That is health.
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29-01-2016, 11:23 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  Insulin is a hormone, not a drug.

So is testosterone but I still need a scrip for it. So is melatonin, but I think in the UK, Canada, and Oz you still need a scrip. (Thanks to Orrin Hatch not in the US 'cause I take a shitload of it.)

(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  But those of you on it who are Type 2, tell me: did your weight and your food choices contribute to the onset of your diabetes?

Sure enough. My bloated butt got up to 280lbs @ 72". And whadd'ya know, I failed my glucose tolerance test at 47yo - now 54). Don't need insulin (yet) but now I'm down to 210 and my A1C is 5.3% on metformin, Invokana, Januvia and Androgel. Don't feel any desire to stop them. Life extension enthusiasts even without diabetes take metformin for its effect on AMPK and SIRT-1 (yeah, I don't know what that means). Invokana makes me piss out 500 Kcals/day. Docs may soon be prescribing it off-label for obesity. And you will take my testosterone away from my cold hard boner.

(28-01-2016 10:45 PM)coyote Wrote:  Are any of you regular users of acetaminophen?
Did you know that it is directly associated with acute liver failure, even at recommended doses? That if you combine it with alcohol, your risk of kidney damage rises significantly?

Fuck no. That shit'll kill you. Regular use of aspirin on the other hand may just save my sorry ass.

#sigh
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29-01-2016, 11:56 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(29-01-2016 11:05 AM)coyote Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 11:41 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Simplistic answers to complex issues are rarely a good thing...

Unless you are in a position to read all of Glenn Frey's medical history, you are simply speculating and adding a dose of your own confirmation bias to the mix.

Telling people they don't need their medications can be dangerous.

While your at it, maybe you can explain how you can reverse type 1 diabetes? I know one adult with it, he's had it since he was a kid.

I'm sure he'd love to stop taking insulin and checking his blood sugar.

Again, you are projecting your assumption of what I said rather than grasping what I actually said.

Nowhere did I advocate abandonment of medications that are keeping people alive.

But as a strictly anecdotal reply, I know plenty of people who have made the effort to get their bodies back into decent shape. Not stupid crash diets, but proper slow progress eating just a little less and exercising just a little more. And a consequence for many has been, after some months, improved blood pressure, to the point that their BP meds become unnecessary. And then the side effects of those meds disappear, and their need for stomach meds to counteract those effects also fades. And the headaches go away, and the need for the liver-scorching acetaminophen fades. And a healthy liver regulates bloodstream contents better than a compromised liver, and therefore the cells work more optimally....

Etc. Just through appropriate and effective food choices and exercise.
That is health.

Nice dodge. However you only addressed part of what I wrote.

Unless you have access to Glenn Frey's entire medical history you are speculating about his death.

I stand by my statement that you are adding your own confirmation bias to your thread.

Your implication if you just do (xx) it will apply to everyone reading this is worrisome.

Sure, it can apply to some, but not all.

Also, it's because of the whole over-prescribing antibiotics that specially led to me landing in the hospital because I had pneumonia and not just a cold.

In fact, he gave me a long lecture about how I didn't need an antibiotic -- how it wouldn't help. I hadn't even asked for one! He assumed I guess that I would...I mean why else would anyone go to the doctor for a cold? Facepalm He dismissed my symptoms.

Unfortunately while antibiotics are over prescribed, doctors should do some testing before sending a patient away. In my case a chest X-ray wouldn't have cost much, and might have saved me some trouble.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-01-2016, 12:42 PM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2016 01:01 PM by coyote.)
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(29-01-2016 11:56 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Nice dodge. However you only addressed part of what I wrote.

Unless you have access to Glenn Frey's entire medical history you are speculating about his death.

It's only a 'dodge' if you don't read so well. I clearly said "people around him seem convinced..."

I dunno man. You argumentative atheists around here are showing a disturbing tendency to put words in others' mouths. it is, frankly, a shitty and dishonest debate tactic.
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29-01-2016, 12:49 PM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2016 12:56 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(29-01-2016 12:42 PM)coyote Wrote:  ... it is, frankly, a shitty and dishonest debate tactic.

Don't give a shit about Glenn Frey's medical history but I'll discuss hormones with you. I've been manipulating mine exogenously for years. Why do you feel exogenous hormone replacement therapy is "the antithesis of health"? To me it's just another tool in my "Keep Bob Alive" toolchest.

#sigh
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