Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
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29-01-2016, 06:56 PM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(29-01-2016 06:37 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 03:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I had breast cancer. I didn't take chemo. Not dead yet. Also cancer free. Everyone and every health situation is different. Therefore, so are treatment methods.

I am glad that you made it through without chemo! Thumbsup

Thank you...so am I.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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29-01-2016, 07:41 PM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(29-01-2016 03:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 02:02 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  She doesn't get chemo. She dies. Does that sound like 'healthy'?

I had breast cancer. I didn't take chemo. Not dead yet. Also cancer free. Everyone and every health situation is different. Therefore, so are treatment methods.

Exactly and you wouldn't want anyone to base their treatment options solely on your story. Meaning going against doctors who say they need chemo and that person saying...'well there's this woman I read about on a forum and she didn't do it...'


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-01-2016, 09:11 PM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(29-01-2016 07:41 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 03:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I had breast cancer. I didn't take chemo. Not dead yet. Also cancer free. Everyone and every health situation is different. Therefore, so are treatment methods.

Exactly and you wouldn't want anyone to base their treatment options solely on your story. Meaning going against doctors who say they need chemo and that person saying...'well there's this woman I read about on a forum and she didn't do it...'

I was certainly pressured to go the chemo route. I did plenty of research and then found a new doctor - a breast cancer researcher and we came up with a plan that worked for me. Everyone should educate themselves on their health conditions and make the best decision for them.

Had I followed the norm...the protocol...I would have gone the chemo route. Obviously, in my case, it wasn't warranted.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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29-01-2016, 10:20 PM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(29-01-2016 09:11 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 07:41 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Exactly and you wouldn't want anyone to base their treatment options solely on your story. Meaning going against doctors who say they need chemo and that person saying...'well there's this woman I read about on a forum and she didn't do it...'

I was certainly pressured to go the chemo route. I did plenty of research and then found a new doctor - a breast cancer researcher and we came up with a plan that worked for me. Everyone should educate themselves on their health conditions and make the best decision for them.

Had I followed the norm...the protocol...I would have gone the chemo route. Obviously, in my case, it wasn't warranted.

Thank you both for making my point. Always get a second opinion and always do your research. Not much else for me to add, you two said it best!

(Sorry I couldn't post more earlier. My wife wanted me to play minecraft with her.)

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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30-01-2016, 02:50 AM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
It's threads like these that make me wish I had a functioning laptop. It makes it difficult and time consuming to quote and paste citations. There are quite a few healthcare professionals on this forum that are perfectly capable of elaborating on the following ramble. I'm certainly not the only nurse, there are medical doctors, medics, etc. I promise I keep my explanations slightly less colorful when I'm at work - I don't drink bourbon on the clock.

Anyway, one thing I read somewhere in this thread mentioned blood pressure meds.

Which medication to prescribe is actually pretty complicated, out of my scope of practice to prescribe (but completely in my scope to administer - and I don't give meds that I don't understand mechanism of action/side effects, etc) and I don't feel like going into the difference between beta blockers, ace inhibitors, diuretics etc. and who gets what.

Also, I would be shocked if there were a licensed healthcare worker that didn't know about white coat syndrome.

Ok. Bare bone basics and explanations about blood pressure. You have systolic -top number- and diastolic -bottom number. Systolic goes up higher and faster with immediate stress (oh my god I'm at the doctors office - what if they tell me my cough is actually lung cancer and I have one week to live?! WebMD had that as the fourth option with my symptoms!) than diastolic. Pop quiz: 152/68 vs 136/84 - which one is more likely to be the patient freaking? Which one is prehypertensive and might need to make some lifestyle changes?

You can also use those numbers to obtain a MAP - mean arterial pressure - which depending on your condition can be more important, especially in an ICU setting on a vasoactive drip. Or if you're a VAD patient, you might only have a MAP and no systolic/diastolic because you are not pulsatile. Most VAD patients need their MAPs between 60-80 - too low and they don't perfuse the kidneys (obviously if it's really low they don't perfuse their brain), too high and they stroke. These patients know how to Doppler it themselves at home to self monitor. VAD patients are well educated on their healthcare - they have to be. If they're not capable of learning and have poor social support, they don't get one.

Feel free to google an arterial line waveform. Especially if you have a family member in the ICU so you have a better idea of what's going on. Unless the waveform is dampened because it's crapping out or has a lot of whip in which case the readings can't be trusted, but don't give the nurse sass and think you know more than your ICU nurse because you know what a normal blood pressure should be when you're a desk jockey. Ok, getting off track...

If you walk into triage, especially a little bit anxious or in pain, and your blood pressure is 150/80, nobody is freaking and thinking you need blood pressure meds (now if that's the norm - time to reevaluate). If you walk into triage with a blood pressure of 230/115, you've just earned yourself an acuity 2 and a much shorter wait time in the ED lobby - that's not white coat syndrome - that's hypertensive crisis (really fucking high) and you might even get to go play with the nurses in CVICU/CCU who will titrate your nicardipine drip, give you IV push meds, oral meds, etc so you don't stroke and die. Bleeding in your brain is no bueno.

I have seen athletic African American males in their late teens/early twenties with no history of cocaine use with hypertension. It's genetics, not lifestyle. When it isn't caught and treated, they end up on dialysis in their twenties because their kidneys are shot to hell. They take a pill that treats their blood pressure, yay, they don't have all the complications that follow from renal failure and they have the opportunity to live long, healthy, productive, satisfying lives.

Why would a physician prescribe a blood pressure med right off the bat? Depends on the patient's history, the presenting blood pressure, risk factors, etc. 170/90 might be slightly more elevated than a patient's norm, but I seriously doubt it's a pretty 110/70 at home -which is about my BP at the doctor's office - I'm typically 90s/50s. High blood pressure is damaging the little capillaries in your body. It leads to renal failure and erectile dysfunction and blindness and...

It can also lead to aneurysms, such as aortic or cerebral, thanks to the shear.

So your physician wants to get the BP down, and get it down sooner rather than later. They prescribe you ohhh, let's say lisinopril 5mg. Your blood pressure comes back down to a normal range. Over the next few months you make dietary changes/become more active/lose weight, and the lisinopril is no longer necessary - it gets discontinued - and during those months that you were making lifestyle changes, you weren't damaging those precious kidneys. However, a lot of people DON'T make those changes, or it's not enough (thanks genetics), so the physicians are certainly more likely to prescribe you a BP med from the get go rather than take you at face value of "oh, I'll start going to the gym and cut out my coffee and diet sodas in favor of water." Riiight. I'm not going to hold my breath. Some people do, most don't.

Also, keep in mind that half the population has an IQ less than 100 and can't grasp even simpler explanations than I've just given. "Wait, Cisco and Diskette what? So my blood is supposed to be 40 over 90?" They're not going to grasp the concept of how to check their blood pressure and evaluate the ranges, so the doc is going to have them make a follow up appointments, recheck their blood pressure and reevaluate each visit.





Sure, there is the possibility the NP or MD is a dumbass, but keep in mind these are professionals who have had years of training and passed not so easy board exams to earn the privilege of writing the prescription for that med.



Anyway, I washed down bunch of melatonin with bourbon to help me sleep and turn my schedule around for the next few days. I work night shift. Is night shift healthy for me? Nope. But it does a better job of paying the bills, not to mention intubated patients can't be expected to take care of themselves outside of M-F business hours. So somebody's got to do it.


tl;dr mostly pointless ramble about high blood pressure and some of its complications. I didn't even go into formulas. I also didn't post the ranges because the normal range doesn't actually apply to everyone and should be discussed with your healthcare provider (keep in mind I played with very sick hearts in the ICU). Thanks and goodnight.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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30-01-2016, 12:46 PM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(30-01-2016 02:50 AM)Nurse Wrote:  Why would a physician prescribe a blood pressure med right off the bat? ... So your physician wants to get the BP down, and get it down sooner rather than later. They prescribe you ohhh, let's say lisinopril 5mg. ... Your blood pressure comes back down to a normal range. Over the next few months you make dietary changes/become more active/lose weight, and the lisinopril is no longer necessary - it gets discontinued - and during those months that you were making lifestyle changes, you weren't damaging those precious kidneys.

As a Type 2 diabeetus, my doc prescribed lisinopril 10mg from the gitgo not because of my BP but to protect my kidneys. My 112/68 BP is just gravy. What is your view of prescribing drugs prophylactically? I'm all for it.

#sigh
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31-01-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(29-01-2016 12:54 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 12:42 PM)coyote Wrote:  I dunno man. You argumentative atheists around here are showing a disturbing tendency to put words in others' mouths. it is, frankly, a shitty and dishonest debate tactic.

You DID say it.

Quote:So back to my statement.

Health is a state of physical and mental well being.
While the drugs apparently helped alleviate Frey's symptoms, their undesirable but unavoidable effects also apparently killed him. That is not health, is it??

I DID say what exactly? What do you believe I said here?
Did I tell everyone to jettison all their meds today? If you imagine the above is equal to that, then you've likely had five too many conversations with Jehovas Witnesses or something. lol

All I did in the above statement was forward the ideas being put forth by some folks who were close to Frey. I stand by my statement that drugs do not equal health. I also stand by the idea that if we can find a holistic path to better health, one that addresses root causes rather than alleviating symptoms, it is inherently superior to drugs and other pharmaceuticals which cannot possibly address root causes.

But no, I did not advise jettisoning drugs... a fact made utterly plain by my statement about their usefulness.

But please, do not let me stop you from reading all this through your anti-religion filters. You've become too entertaining, in an utterly idiotic way, to stop now.
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31-01-2016, 03:01 PM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(31-01-2016 02:25 PM)coyote Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 12:54 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  You DID say it.

I DID say what exactly? What do you believe I said here?
Did I tell everyone to jettison all their meds today? If you imagine the above is equal to that, then you've likely had five too many conversations with Jehovas Witnesses or something. lol

All I did in the above statement was forward the ideas being put forth by some folks who were close to Frey. I stand by my statement that drugs do not equal health. I also stand by the idea that if we can find a holistic path to better health, one that addresses root causes rather than alleviating symptoms, it is inherently superior to drugs and other pharmaceuticals which cannot possibly address root causes.

But no, I did not advise jettisoning drugs... a fact made utterly plain by my statement about their usefulness.

But please, do not let me stop you from reading all this through your anti-religion filters. You've become too entertaining, in an utterly idiotic way, to stop now.

You also just said it's a tendency for atheists (around here, was it?) to put words in peoples mouths.

Generalizing Witnesses' views on drugs is kind of just as idiotic, you know?

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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31-01-2016, 03:51 PM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
(31-01-2016 03:01 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(31-01-2016 02:25 PM)coyote Wrote:  I DID say what exactly? What do you believe I said here?
Did I tell everyone to jettison all their meds today? If you imagine the above is equal to that, then you've likely had five too many conversations with Jehovas Witnesses or something. lol

All I did in the above statement was forward the ideas being put forth by some folks who were close to Frey. I stand by my statement that drugs do not equal health. I also stand by the idea that if we can find a holistic path to better health, one that addresses root causes rather than alleviating symptoms, it is inherently superior to drugs and other pharmaceuticals which cannot possibly address root causes.

But no, I did not advise jettisoning drugs... a fact made utterly plain by my statement about their usefulness.

But please, do not let me stop you from reading all this through your anti-religion filters. You've become too entertaining, in an utterly idiotic way, to stop now.

You also just said it's a tendency for atheists (around here, was it?) to put words in peoples mouths.

Generalizing Witnesses' views on drugs is kind of just as idiotic, you know?

My error, I should have said Christian Science followers.
Apologies to any JWs I may have offended.
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31-01-2016, 09:20 PM
RE: Drugs are the antithesis of health?? (Glenn Frey content)
I still think your concept of "health" is unhealthy

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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