Drummers and time.
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11-10-2015, 08:46 PM
RE: Drummers and time.
I played with a drummer (for a short time) who couldn't end a fill on time to save his life. It was maddening.
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11-10-2015, 10:38 PM
RE: Drummers and time.
(11-10-2015 05:55 AM)Banjo Wrote:  However I am also a percussionist who has had to play with drummers whose time was wayward.

Wow, you've played with Max Weinberg?

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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11-10-2015, 11:39 PM
RE: Drummers and time.
(11-10-2015 05:55 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Time is why we are there. It matters not how fast your paradiddle is, if you cannot play a basic groove, whether it be blues, jazz rock funk etc in time, you wont work.

One must consider the metronome, or click, as a friend, not an enemy.

I seem to recall a great drummer saying he thought of the cowbell click as being Paquito de Rivera playing beside him.

A great attitude.

I am a drummer dedicated to the click track.
This post reminded me of an article I read once. I've just googled it and been lucky enough to find it.
http://us.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/ann...i-20120530
Quote:This was the thing that spun my head for the rest of my career. I played through a section and he said, "I think you were a little bit late on one snare hit." He played it back and I was like, "Come on." But I got off the drums and he took the two-inch tape in slow motion and was like, "This is the click (boom) and this is the snare hit (boom)." So I asked, could you tell me how late I was? By hand, he clocked it and said, "You were 10 milliseconds late." He said the human ear can only hear to two milliseconds, maybe three. It changed my life, because I realized that microscopic space was audible to people who were used to it. I used to sit at home and put the metronome on 40 bpm and see how many times I could get 10 snare hits in a row. It was like, zero. I could never do it. I was blown away at how hard it was to be perfect. I’ve spent the rest of my career doing things with timing and metronomes and stuff.
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17-10-2015, 11:02 PM
RE: Drummers and time.
(11-10-2015 11:39 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(11-10-2015 05:55 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Time is why we are there. It matters not how fast your paradiddle is, if you cannot play a basic groove, whether it be blues, jazz rock funk etc in time, you wont work.

One must consider the metronome, or click, as a friend, not an enemy.

I seem to recall a great drummer saying he thought of the cowbell click as being Paquito de Rivera playing beside him.

A great attitude.

I am a drummer dedicated to the click track.
This post reminded me of an article I read once. I've just googled it and been lucky enough to find it.
http://us.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/ann...i-20120530
Quote:This was the thing that spun my head for the rest of my career. I played through a section and he said, "I think you were a little bit late on one snare hit." He played it back and I was like, "Come on." But I got off the drums and he took the two-inch tape in slow motion and was like, "This is the click (boom) and this is the snare hit (boom)." So I asked, could you tell me how late I was? By hand, he clocked it and said, "You were 10 milliseconds late." He said the human ear can only hear to two milliseconds, maybe three. It changed my life, because I realized that microscopic space was audible to people who were used to it. I used to sit at home and put the metronome on 40 bpm and see how many times I could get 10 snare hits in a row. It was like, zero. I could never do it. I was blown away at how hard it was to be perfect. I’ve spent the rest of my career doing things with timing and metronomes and stuff.


Very cool. I've met Mike. Really really nice guy. He has a couple of books out. I've not read them, though I do own his first.

But he won the Dream Theatre audition over my teacher, Virgil Donati. They live in dirfferent areas of the States. Virgil is way across the continent from DT.

On another note, I have been asked to do a podcast interview on a drumming website.
I will let you know when it is going to be released.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-10-2015, 02:25 AM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2015 03:11 AM by Stevil.)
RE: Drummers and time.
(17-10-2015 11:02 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Very cool. I've met Mike. Really really nice guy. He has a couple of books out. I've not read them, though I do own his first.

But he won the Dream Theatre audition over my teacher, Virgil Donati. They live in dirfferent areas of the States. Virgil is way across the continent from DT.
You've met Mike. Wow!

I was really into Annihilator, and so came to hear about Mike from his stint with them.
I saw this clip on YouTube that Annihilator released.
Not being a drummer, I don't really know what is skillful or hard or whatever. But he was superfast (seemed to me, anyways). But no doubt he had improved heaps on his way into Dream Theatre. To replace Portnoy is a mighty achievement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQTBtkB_mWQ
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18-10-2015, 04:21 AM
RE: Drummers and time.
(18-10-2015 02:25 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(17-10-2015 11:02 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Very cool. I've met Mike. Really really nice guy. He has a couple of books out. I've not read them, though I do own his first.

But he won the Dream Theatre audition over my teacher, Virgil Donati. They live in dirfferent areas of the States. Virgil is way across the continent from DT.
You've met Mike. Wow!

I was really into Annihilator, and so came to hear about Mike from his stint with them.
I saw this clip on YouTube that Annihilator released.
Not being a drummer, I don't really know what is skillful or hard or whatever. But he was superfast (seemed to me, anyways). But no doubt he had improved heaps on his way into Dream Theatre. To replace Portnoy is a mighty achievement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQTBtkB_mWQ



Yeah we hung out. He actually picked up and cradled a young student of mine. Lovely guy.

Musicians travel around doing clinics and these are usually through music stores that sell the products they endorse. Chances are if a band you like is touring, 1 of the members is doing a clinic and you can easily meet them.

As for Portnoy and Mangini? No contest. I make no comment on Portnoy, but I will say when my 14 year old #1 student saw Portnoy on Youtube, he burst out laughing. He did the same when he saw Peart! "That guy can't swing or play for shit!"

My answer, I simply smiled. Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-10-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: Drummers and time.
(18-10-2015 04:21 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Musicians travel around doing clinics and these are usually through music stores that sell the products they endorse. Chances are if a band you like is touring, 1 of the members is doing a clinic and you can easily meet them.
Yeah, I see that Nicko does many clinics.

(18-10-2015 04:21 AM)Banjo Wrote:  As for Portnoy and Mangini? No contest. I make no comment on Portnoy, but I will say when my 14 year old #1 student saw Portnoy on Youtube, he burst out laughing. He did the same when he saw Peart! "That guy can't swing or play for shit!"

My answer, I simply smiled. Wink
OK, of course band popularity also influences public opinion of individual's skills as well as being in Prog bands as they do crazy time sigs and changes etc.

Music is often a subjective thing, whether people appreciate speed, or technique or feel etc. Not being a drummer (let alone an expert drummer) I can't judge technique.
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18-10-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: Drummers and time.
(18-10-2015 12:16 PM)Stevil Wrote:  OK, of course band popularity also influences public opinion of individual's skills as well as being in Prog bands as they do crazy time sigs and changes etc.

Music is often a subjective thing, whether people appreciate speed, or technique or feel etc. Not being a drummer (let alone an expert drummer) I can't judge technique.

I like the fact prog has become popular again. Having played through the 80's, the 90's were very freeing. Bill Bruford said he had an accountant call him from the recording company and tell him not to pay a tambourine in a certain section. Welcome to music in the 80's! Big Grin

Females have always been the largest group of record buyers. By the late 70's they were over prog. The audiences had become sausage fests and were dwindling . 80's pop arrived and recording business recession and bang, no creativity allowed. Just listen to the guitar hair band shite of the period.

Now women are seeking out the new so called "prog bands", Porcupine tree" Dream theatre" etc. Even though they are less progressive than Relayer in 1974. The term progressive has become meaningless because it is all just a copy of Yes and Genesis with some kIng Crimson's Red thrown into the mix. In the case of Rush anyway. Who came along after the decline of the actual cultural movement that began with Sgt Pepper's and resulted in King Crimson and Yes beginning around 1968 and fading by 1974.

By the 80's Yes and Genesis were pop bands and the only truly prog rock was the 1982 to 1984 King Crimson.

At least now people can play. The death of the recording companies has actually freed musicians so they can play.

Who or what one likes doesn't matter. All that matters is people support music. Any music.

As for the calibre of musicians, I'll put it like this. Every musician good enough to work as a pro is very good. That is why I only smiled at my student. But he was just 13. And at 13 I had already taught him how to swing, play New Orleans funk etc. His technique is already superb. After all my teacher was Virgil Donati who Dennis Chambers told me "He scared the shit out of me at a clinic when I had to go on after him!"

Peart for example has IMO a poor technique. No fluidity, swings like a rusty gate etc. I also envisage his technique not lasting and coming back to haunt him. He never learned to play off the drum head. Only how to pound it. Which is why after over 20 years of jazz lessons he still can't swing. But then being in a hugely popular band like Rush, he doesn't have to swing. It might make his playing less stiff and make it easier to listen to. But he is no Brian Blade.

But I respect him because he plays in time and has been very successful. My student is quite correct, but naive. He was just 13 after all.

All art is subjective at the end of the day.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-10-2015, 10:09 PM
RE: Drummers and time.
Check these guys out. They can play!




NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-10-2015, 10:30 PM
RE: Drummers and time.
(11-10-2015 08:46 PM)pablo Wrote:  I played with a drummer (for a short time) who couldn't end a fill on time to save his life. It was maddening.

All too common. As a percussionist I too have had to deal with it. From professional players!!! I actually told a drummer on a studio session where I played percussion "Cut out the Neil Peart shit and play the fucking groove!"

He was speechless but it saved the session for him because I was about to throw him out and play the damned drums.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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