Drunken Musings
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26-08-2011, 08:49 PM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2011 09:38 PM by Hughsie.)
Drunken Musings
Ok, to start with I'm VERY drunk right now so this might not make much sense!

Earlier today I watched a CSI episode in which a member of a vampire cult was killed and the friends of the vic were saying that they were against conformarism.

It got me thinking on the idea of conformarism (from an English point of view) as I have been on the end of such as idea.

To set the background, I live in England where there is a strong teenage idea of individualism. The people in the group affected by this notion reject the normal idea of teenagers such as wearing jeans and doing as stereotypically associated with teenagers and end up becoming part of the goth/emo (English slang) subculture. Whether they are aware of this or not they are still conforming, in my eyes, but to an alternative subculture.

I don't know about America but in England there is immense social pressure in certain groups to be an 'individual' and not care about what other people think of them. Yet girls I've known from this subculture still put hours into looking their best. This implies they DO care what people think. When asked about this they reply that they want to look the best they can for themselves, not to impress others, yet they do not spend hours doing hair/make-up for a lazy day around the house which, for me, invalidates their argument.

However I know girls in the 'normal' teenage group who are happy to go out with out any make-up, which implies a truer sense of individuality and security.

This leads me to think that believe that 99.9% of people in this subculture have become a part of the very thing they are rebelling against, without realising it, while the people they are rebelling against have, to a degree, realised the ideal they aim for. This, in turn, makes me think that people who are truly individual are (mostly, not exclusively) societal rejects for everyone (someone who rights on a wall in their own faeces is not conforming to anything but is dismissed by both sides), such as mental patients.

Again, in turn, this leads me to believe that the Western concept of individualism (at least among teenagers, who seem to strive for it most) is completely false and just an unreachable idea.

PS. Just to clarify, I DO believe that their are truly 'individual' people, just that 99.9% of people who claim to be are mistaken.

Anyone got any opinions on this idea?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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26-08-2011, 10:23 PM
RE: Drunken Musings
Ok, since I was asked to post in this one due to my extreme individualism here we go =p

For starters, the goth/emo groups are about as conforming as possible. They also demand the most time for hair and makeup, it's not about looking pretty as much as it's making the look work. It takes a lot of work to look unhappy =p.

The closest trend as far as conformity would have to be the gothic lolita's, while the basic trend is to wear non revealing clothes and shop thrift generally the group tends to be quite homogenous.

I actually think that individuality is not something that is ever really sought. Those who desire to be more individual generally work at it which completely defeats the purpose. Especially in high school there is an over focus on identity, you can't be an individual if your day is spent thinking about how everyone reacts to you. Wanting to be more individual is actually wanting to be noticed, it just sounds nicer.

The truly individual (which I suppose I'm one of =p) tend to dislike the fact and have a bit of jealousy to those who can conform. Individuals don't try to be individual they just live their lives and nothing is going to convince them to spend all day perfecting their image. Generally, like in my case, the reason for individuality is a horrific/uncommon experience, or a deep seated need (I had both).

People generally have the same interests overall. Preppy kids many times will be a lot less focused than the unpopular groups simply because it's primarily a parent thing. Without a clear distinction a child will generally find a niche. Humans are social animals and subconsciously will always seek their specific place in the group. Being someone seen as an individual means that they have always seen themselves outside of the group.

Most individuals have very broken families and most trendsetters have very together families. Most people have families in between the extremes and pretty much conform one way or another.

A non conformist in a niche group (take for instance my cat furry stuff) will not place a major importance in that aspect of their life. otherwise they'll be a very conforming person. If I were the kind of kitty that wanted to be all furry and feel the community I'd be a lot more bland.

I'd say most true individuals are ambidextrous and multi-talented. Focus of any kind breeds sameness.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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26-08-2011, 10:49 PM
RE: Drunken Musings
You should read up on the theOry of Erik erickson.


He has steps in the development of the ego, and the one around teen years is identity vs. Role playing. Basically at this stage in life people try on different roles, in many ways, to see who 'they' are and what fits their ego personality.

And as a side note, I used to spend hours dressing up and would just stay home and listen to music or surf the net. Lol.
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