Dualism and orgonomy
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-10-2012, 01:55 PM
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
Mr. JDM was kind to answer so soon. I have to say, he did not give me a permission to post the whole e-mail, (I think such a discussion never worked for him) but he also said I can use my own words. He much preferred to speak through the links and articles, I'd say these are the parts that need your attention, not personal words. Sure enough, I'll also copy and paste the section with Vosur's questions.

> 1. Do you think that the orgone hypothesis meets the standards of the scientific method?
Yes. To the point I no longer view it as a mere hypothesis but as a bona-fide discovery.

> 2. Why do you think that there are little to no peer-reviewed papers dealing with said hypothesis?
There are plenty of peer-reviewed papers. Most all of the orgonomic journals, including Reich's original ones, were peer-reviewed. See the on-line Bibliography on Orgonomy, and my own publications list for details:
http://www.orgonelab.org/bibliog.htm
http://www.orgonelab.org/demeopubs.htm

> 3. Why don't you use the national/international media in order to 'promote' your research so that other scientists are encouraged to evaluate your claims?
Usually the mainstream media is too biased. They either print only ridicule and slander, what they get from the well-organized "skeptic clubs", or they print nothing.


As for the point 3, you can look at the section of critics and see the examples of irrational attacks on Reich and JDM plus rebuttals to them.
Generally, JDM in the whole letter expressed himself critically towards both self-appointed skeptics and woo folks, plus both mechanistic worldview and mystical ideologies. According to him, when it comes to Reich, skeptics are half right, due to all the nonsense being spread around. My impression was, when he spoke of skeptics he meant the professional ones engaged in some kind of work for the journals, etc.

Not meaning to disrespect JDM, but these are two impressive links and I want to accompany them with the original quote.
There is one ether, in keeping with the earlier theories on the cosmic ether of physics. Reich's orgone energy discovery adds detail to that older discovery, that it is a tangible and real life-energy, with biological properties.
http://www.orgonelab.org/miller.htm
http://www.orgonelab.org/DynamicEther.pdf
According to some googling around, this is JDM's paper published in a peer-reviewed journal "Galillean electrodynamics"

(15-10-2012 05:38 AM)Vosur Wrote:  You could try contacting the publishers of peer-reviewed science journals and tell them to take a look at the Orgone research or suggest the authors of orgonelabs.org to send these journals an article on their research. This one may be your best bet.
All right, this is what I'll try next. Meanwhile, you've got your answer.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
The Venus Project
FreeDomain Radio - The greatest philosophy show on the web!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-10-2012, 09:56 AM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2012 10:00 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
(16-10-2012 01:55 PM)Luminon Wrote:  > 1. Do you think that the orgone hypothesis meets the standards of the scientific method?
Yes. To the point I no longer view it as a mere hypothesis but as a bona-fide discovery.
In that case, he should be encouraged to get it peer-reviewed by popular scientists/science journals. I'm certain that they would be interested in such a groundbreaking discovery.

(16-10-2012 01:55 PM)Luminon Wrote:  > 2. Why do you think that there are little to no peer-reviewed papers dealing with said hypothesis?
There are plenty of peer-reviewed papers. Most all of the orgonomic journals, including Reich's original ones, were peer-reviewed.
Peer-reviewed by whom? Consider

(16-10-2012 01:55 PM)Luminon Wrote:  > 3. Why don't you use the national/international media in order to 'promote' your research so that other scientists are encouraged to evaluate your claims?
Usually the mainstream media is too biased. They either print only ridicule and slander, what they get from the well-organized "skeptic clubs", or they print nothing.
Where did he get the idea from that I was talking about 'mainstream' media?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-10-2012, 01:13 PM
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
I'm currently reading Carl Sagan's "Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark". In the first few chapters, Wilhelm Reich and his orgone research are mentioned a few times. You might want to check it out.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vosur's post
21-10-2012, 04:27 PM
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
(21-10-2012 01:13 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm currently reading Carl Sagan's "Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark". In the first few chapters, Wilhelm Reich and his orgone research are mentioned a few times. You might want to check it out.
I'll try, although I'm now quite busy with school things. Plus a friend's computer needs a new HDD and OS and I don't even know how does she look like, much less her computer.
But I'll look at that. I hope Carl Sagan took a professional look at Orgonomy and didn't just sweep it off the table by Einstein's one inconclusive, non-falsifying test, ignoring all the positive evidence.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
The Venus Project
FreeDomain Radio - The greatest philosophy show on the web!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-12-2012, 01:04 PM
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
Bump

Have you already received an answer from PLOS Biology, Luminion?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-12-2012, 01:55 AM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2012 01:58 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
(01-12-2012 01:04 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Bump

Have you already received an answer from PLOS Biology, Luminion?
Man, I totally forgot! I'm so busy now. I finished a vocational school and went into a capital city for my Bc. degree of the same type but in a year. The problem is, I need to do... let me see... 9 exams this winter plus of course the actual Bc thesis and two more essays. It's not an easy school, the government already shut down the easy ones. Meanwhile I respond to lots of messages, e-mails from family (you'd be surprised how many times they want to hear from me per month!) and also generally loaf around from exhaustion of willpower. Procrastination is a force that genuinely makes me fear for my life, I mean, my student and professional life. Things either get done immediately, or never.

However, I contacted Texas activist Aron Ra, you surely know him. He might be able to help with practical and legal aspects of the Texas Republican theocracy. Sean Faircloth himself didn't respond, probably too busy.

Let's see how soon Seth finds himself leading the Oklahoma Atheist party Smile

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
The Venus Project
FreeDomain Radio - The greatest philosophy show on the web!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-12-2012, 12:54 PM
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
(03-12-2012 01:55 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Man, I totally forgot! I'm so busy now. I finished a vocational school and went into a capital city for my Bc. degree of the same type but in a year. The problem is, I need to do... let me see... 9 exams this winter plus of course the actual Bc thesis and two more essays. It's not an easy school, the government already shut down the easy ones. Meanwhile I respond to lots of messages, e-mails from family (you'd be surprised how many times they want to hear from me per month!) and also generally loaf around from exhaustion of willpower. Procrastination is a force that genuinely makes me fear for my life, I mean, my student and professional life. Things either get done immediately, or never.

However, I contacted Texas activist Aron Ra, you surely know him. He might be able to help with practical and legal aspects of the Texas Republican theocracy. Sean Faircloth himself didn't respond, probably too busy.

Let's see how soon Seth finds himself leading the Oklahoma Atheist party Smile
It's fine. Taking care of things in life should always have the highest priority.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-03-2013, 10:21 AM
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
Bump

(01-12-2012 01:04 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Have you already received an answer from PLOS Biology, Luminion?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-03-2013, 10:56 AM
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
(01-03-2013 10:21 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Bump

(01-12-2012 01:04 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Have you already received an answer from PLOS Biology, Luminion?


WTAF, Vosur? Let the dead rest in peace. Angry

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-03-2013, 05:28 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2013 06:03 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Dualism and orgonomy
(01-03-2013 10:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-03-2013 10:21 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Bump


WTAF, Vosur? Let the dead rest in peace. Angry
Well, right now I study like 3 years university in 1 year, which includes writing Bachelor's thesis. (they approved some of my vocational subjects for credits, but not many)
I think the very next close encounter with science I am about to have will be a consultation with a psychologist, an autism spectrum expert. I wrote down all the sensory stuff and other things and we'll see. They in the doctor's office were supposed to call me at the end of February, which they of course didn't, so now I am supposed to call them. I did so on Friday, but nobody picked up the phone and now it's weekend. Geez, I'll try again on Monday, send them the documents and hope they'll arrange the diagnostic meeting soon.

Maybe they'll get me a brain scan and maybe that will be covered by the public insurance and maybe it will show something that I am not making this stuff up, consciously or not. But what the heck, I might get an inspiration one night, write the damn e-mail and see what the PLOS will say. It will anyway be a random shot, because they don't have this kind of application form for such general questions, I'll have to pick one of the persons on the website.

So that's how I live all these years - endless possibilities, endless maybes, no guarantees ever. The sensory perception is like the only reliable thing that always works. The world of science where we know things for sure, here and right now, that's quite alien to me. The ideas I get, I let them grow on me for months and years. I see this PLOS business probably won't be much different. I've got my own methods, my own tempo, my own life and goals... That's how it always was, so far. Yet there are many changes in my life, overwhelmingly many. Life goes faster and faster and gets more and more fascinating and terrifying and the same time. The PLOS journal will be a small side project in my life, as it seems, a footnote in the book of L.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
The Venus Project
FreeDomain Radio - The greatest philosophy show on the web!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: