Dualism and orgonomy
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30-09-2012, 04:55 PM
RE: Dualism
(30-09-2012 04:54 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 04:40 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Nor did he say that the laws are absolute.

I don't believe in universal absolutes; perhaps Chas doesn't either!

I believe reality is absolute; our understanding of it - not so much.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-09-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: Dualism
Fucking Chas with the terse-and-deadly is kick ass. Big Grin

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30-09-2012, 05:02 PM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2012 06:37 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Dualism
I'm thinking what you experience is not dualism, but a sort of (natural) "escape mechanism" embedded, but never, or almost never experienced ... much like a ventricular "escape", or ideo-ventricular rhythm in the heart. You can live your whole life, and it never fires, unless certain contitions occur.
It's amazing evolution left it there, as it's almost never used. I never could figure out how evolution got it there, until I realized it already was there from 3 chambered hearts. Maybe your brain is doing a smilar thing ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventricular_escape_beat
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syZxc3_jnU0

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30-09-2012, 05:04 PM
RE: Dualism
(30-09-2012 04:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 04:54 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I don't believe in universal absolutes; perhaps Chas doesn't either!

I believe reality is absolute; our understanding of it - not so much.

A very broad definition of reality and highly preferable to locked in, dogmatic, authoritative, and ultra dangerous pipe dreams.
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30-09-2012, 05:05 PM
RE: Dualism
(30-09-2012 05:04 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 04:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  I believe reality is absolute; our understanding of it - not so much.

A very broad definition of reality and highly preferable to locked in, dogmatic, authoritative, and ultra dangerous pipe dreams.

Exactly.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-09-2012, 05:35 PM
RE: Dualism
(30-09-2012 04:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 04:48 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  How is
not an absolute? Big Grin

Our current physics are exceedingly well supported. KC's beliefs are pathological.

I'll stand by my no fucking dualism statement. Mind is an emergent property of the brain; no more, no less.


mind is a reflection of the outside world.
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30-09-2012, 05:44 PM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2012 05:49 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Dualism
(30-09-2012 03:56 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Most of us will agree it is hokum, but today I was all in "I'm dying" mode, and I got to thinking about my near-absolute lack of fear of death. I say "near" as I consider a somewhat dualist nature to human existence in the form of "me and my monkey." This because every once in a while there is a moment of anxiety thinking about death, which I consider as animal instinct for self-preservation bubbling up into my conscious awareness. I figure if it was up to me, I'd shut my hole and die already.

And I'm not subscribing to the thought of destiny - like how I'm a prophet and I'm supposed to be important - cause that's bullshit. But I keep flapping my gums, convinced that "fear of death" imposes a great burden on society and the Gwynnite death perspective has some value in rectifying such.

So is there some kinda monkey assed dualism, or what?
It is interesting what you say, because you should be impartial on this. All conclusions you come to, they shouldn't be religious or anything. If you don't fear death, then it gives hope to all people who don't subscribe to any weird beliefs. Did you read the last Hitchens' book or something? Do you have a whole philosophy to back you up, or just common sense? I heard Indians used to say, "when you realize you ride a dead horse, dismount." The world would be so much better place if people dismounted when their horses die. Or maybe it's something deeper, an abstract feeling in you that keeps you from fearing death. You tell me. (btw, did I miss a memo? Is your health all right?)

I never had that choice, so I can hardly imagine. From earliest age I had (and still have) strange but permanent physical perception of subtler and less visible material levels of the world. For me it was always obvious that there is a physical mechanism for dualism. And not just for me, I saw that this kind of perception can be taught to others and sometimes even randomly demonstrated outside.
I personally think this is dark matter sphere around Earth (partially dragged) that participates on living processes and that the independent research of it will be probably confirmed officially in decades to come.

But that's not the point. After a lifetime spent like that I almost can't imagine a non-dualistic life. I can hardly imagine how other people are doing, how can they live in a "this is all there is and that's it" world? Or why don't they actively search for scientific signs of a dualistic world?
But just as much, I am satisfied with nothing less than a solid hands-on experience, that jibes with other sources. I don't get why people develop these elaborate theories and beliefs about afterlife and dualistic world, having zero experience in the field. (Egor, for example) That is so... unsatisfying.
I am not opposed to the idea of non-existence. I experienced it once during meditation, when myself ceased to exist for a moment. (and it didn't feel bad) It's just that my other experiences say that this is not what happens after death, not right away anyway.

Maybe this is a dangerous line of thought (with Chas around) but skeptics have feelings too. Maybe they vehemently deny any possibility of an afterlife or dualistic world, because it's painful and dangerous. Dangerous, because you open your mind a little, then superstition crawls in and opens it all the way. So it's safer for our feelings not even to entertain the thought or seriously speculate about the mechanism. Except of some very lame mechanistic versions, like digital consciousness storage.

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30-09-2012, 06:28 PM
RE: Dualism
Picking up on HOC's word: Survival instinct.

Cause then you are looking at dualism in a psychological sense, not a religious one.

As in: I am not afraid of death, but my survival instinct kicks in.

Now you are talking about a sort of dualism, albeit it has nothing to do with religion or afterlife, it has to do with the present and brain functions.

I am not afraid of death - soft coded
My survival instinct kicks in - hard coded

I bet we have that shit going on all the time, even when we are not aware of it.

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30-09-2012, 06:48 PM
RE: Dualism
@ Lumi:

A whole, vast, incomplete, incomprehensible philosophy that somehow is expressed in an instant among those who find some measure of satisfaction in grief. Big Grin

I've been told straight up not to be around when certain people are expressing their grief. Their whole body posture is like I'm some kind of non-human. Part of why I don't separate my philosophy from the scientific method.

It's a love story. I'm all madly in love with Gwyneth Paltrow - in cased you somehow missed it - yet love needs expression. That expression began with drawing her portrait and now continues with the philosophy of Gwynnite.

But writing the Book of Gwynnite is a big maybe. Tends to sound like creepy obsessive bullshit. Which only means there may be a kick ass tome coming from this direction - cause if it was easy it would suck - or nothing more than this series of loosely connected Internet posts.

And yeah, I got pneumonia or some shit. Had the ol' massive coronary in the past so I know when my body's going all code blue, and this morning was a few hacks away from an ambulance ride. But my Gwynnies seems to have regressed it for the nonce. And I'm such a tool, that I don't wanna go get a bill for some treatment when my insurance will be straightened out soon.

A hazard of this prophet gig, I really don't place much value on my life nor my physical well being. Undecided

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30-09-2012, 07:13 PM
RE: Dualism
(30-09-2012 05:44 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 03:56 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Most of us will agree it is hokum, but today I was all in "I'm dying" mode, and I got to thinking about my near-absolute lack of fear of death. I say "near" as I consider a somewhat dualist nature to human existence in the form of "me and my monkey." This because every once in a while there is a moment of anxiety thinking about death, which I consider as animal instinct for self-preservation bubbling up into my conscious awareness. I figure if it was up to me, I'd shut my hole and die already.

And I'm not subscribing to the thought of destiny - like how I'm a prophet and I'm supposed to be important - cause that's bullshit. But I keep flapping my gums, convinced that "fear of death" imposes a great burden on society and the Gwynnite death perspective has some value in rectifying such.

So is there some kinda monkey assed dualism, or what?
It is interesting what you say, because you should be impartial on this. All conclusions you come to, they shouldn't be religious or anything. If you don't fear death, then it gives hope to all people who don't subscribe to any weird beliefs. Did you read the last Hitchens' book or something? Do you have a whole philosophy to back you up, or just common sense? I heard Indians used to say, "when you realize you ride a dead horse, dismount." The world would be so much better place if people dismounted when their horses die. Or maybe it's something deeper, an abstract feeling in you that keeps you from fearing death. You tell me. (btw, did I miss a memo? Is your health all right?)

I never had that choice, so I can hardly imagine. From earliest age I had (and still have) strange but permanent physical perception of subtler and less visible material levels of the world. For me it was always obvious that there is a physical mechanism for dualism. And not just for me, I saw that this kind of perception can be taught to others and sometimes even randomly demonstrated outside.
I personally think this is dark matter sphere around Earth (partially dragged) that participates on living processes and that the independent research of it will be probably confirmed officially in decades to come.

But that's not the point. After a lifetime spent like that I almost can't imagine a non-dualistic life. I can hardly imagine how other people are doing, how can they live in a "this is all there is and that's it" world? Or why don't they actively search for scientific signs of a dualistic world?
But just as much, I am satisfied with nothing less than a solid hands-on experience, that jibes with other sources. I don't get why people develop these elaborate theories and beliefs about afterlife and dualistic world, having zero experience in the field. (Egor, for example) That is so... unsatisfying.
I am not opposed to the idea of non-existence. I experienced it once during meditation, when myself ceased to exist for a moment. (and it didn't feel bad) It's just that my other experiences say that this is not what happens after death, not right away anyway.

Maybe this is a dangerous line of thought (with Chas around) but skeptics have feelings too. Maybe they vehemently deny any possibility of an afterlife or dualistic world, because it's painful and dangerous. Dangerous, because you open your mind a little, then superstition crawls in and opens it all the way. So it's safer for our feelings not even to entertain the thought or seriously speculate about the mechanism. Except of some very lame mechanistic versions, like digital consciousness storage.

I await evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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