Dumb Atheist Sayings
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-05-2016, 02:31 PM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2016 02:40 PM by jabeady.)
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 11:30 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Jesus guys, the word is Greek, I'm Greek.
What, exactly, are you trying to imply, here? Given the arena of this conversation, what's wanted is not an authority in Greek etymology (and your credentials have yet to be established), but in common modern-English usage.

Quote:It's had many meanings since it first appeared (from heathen, to infidel, to agnostic, to godless) but its core meaning ("α" -without, "θεός" - god) means simply that: without a god.

If you want to play Dueling Definitions:

"Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2][3][4] Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist.[5][6] In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[1]" Wikipedia.

Thus, you are relying on the least - specific (most-vague) definition while, it seems, almost everybody else is more - interested in something more specific.

You argue that atheism is a (natural) state of mind, given an absence of any information at all. So what? No one here has any argument with, or even considers, an infant's "atheism" since it is entirely irrelevant to any meaningful discussion between theism and a knowledgeable atheism. If you were to ask a newborn whether they believe in god, the answer would be, "What's that?" I believe that most of us would prefer to begin the conversation at a more advanced, adult, level.

Therefore, I believe "We're all born atheist," to be a stupid atheist saying.

Oh crap!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jabeady's post
15-05-2016, 02:36 PM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 02:31 PM)jabeady Wrote:  
(15-05-2016 11:30 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Jesus guys, the word is Greek, I'm Greek.
What, exactly, are you trying to imply, here? Given the arena of this conversation, what's wanted is not an authority in Greek etymology (and your credentials have yet to be established), but in common modern-English usage.

Quote:It's had many meanings since it first appeared (from heathen, to infidel, to agnostic, to godless) but its core meaning ("α" -without, "θεός" - god) means simply that: without a god.

I have it on good authority that her credentials are rock solid in the Greek language. Yes
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Aliza's post
15-05-2016, 02:38 PM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 02:36 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-05-2016 02:31 PM)jabeady Wrote:  What, exactly, are you trying to imply, here? Given the arena of this conversation, what's wanted is not an authority in Greek etymology (and your credentials have yet to be established), but in common modern-English usage.

I have it on good authority that her credentials are rock solid in the Greek language. Yes

And in common modern-English usage? How then?

Oh crap!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-05-2016, 02:47 PM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
I hate when atheists tell me they're out of weed. It's fucking bullshit.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like I'mFred's post
15-05-2016, 02:51 PM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 02:31 PM)jabeady Wrote:  What, exactly, are you trying to imply, here? Given the arena of this conversation, what's wanted is not an authority in Greek etymology (and your credentials have yet to be established), but in common modern-English usage.

Common? If you consider that the average English-speaking person is a theist, we should then change the definition of atheism to "fucking asshole". Because, I mean, that's how it's mostly used.

(15-05-2016 02:31 PM)jabeady Wrote:  If you want to play Dueling Definitions:

"Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2][3][4] Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist.[5][6] In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[1]" Wikipedia.

Thus, you are relying on the least - specific (most-vague) definition while, it seems, almost everybody else is more - interested in something more specific.

"Broad" does not mean "vague" nor "not specific". If you're gonna debate me on linguistics, at least get your Semantics straight.

And since you can't have a universally accepted definition of the word (as witnessed by the Wikipedia page you just cited), you might as well go back to its original meaning, which is actually the only common thing you will find among the atheists in this forum.

(15-05-2016 02:31 PM)jabeady Wrote:  You argue that atheism is a (natural) state of mind, given an absence of any information at all.

When did I argue that exactly? My argument was simply that babies are born without a god. Straw man much?

(15-05-2016 02:31 PM)jabeady Wrote:  No one here has any argument with, or even considers, an infant's "atheism" since it is entirely irrelevant to any meaningful discussion between theism and a knowledgeable atheism.

What is "knowledgeable atheism"?
No one considers an infant's atheism, but they should. That's the whole point of the argument. I've mentioned this before, there are many Christians who believe that even if they were born in another country that was not Christian, they'd still become Christians somehow. Or, they think that Christianity specifically (and not religion in general) comes naturally. This argument couldn't be more relevant in such cases.

(15-05-2016 02:31 PM)jabeady Wrote:  If you were to ask a newborn whether they believe in god, the answer would be, "What's that?" I believe that most of us would prefer to begin the conversation at a more advanced, adult, point.

As I said before, atheism is a state, not an opinion.

(15-05-2016 02:38 PM)jabeady Wrote:  
(15-05-2016 02:36 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I have it on good authority that her credentials are rock solid in the Greek language. Yes

And in common modern-English usage? How then?

Oh crap!

I have a degree on English language and literature, with a specialization in linguistics. Greece also happens to be a country where English is heard and spoken on a daily basis. Good enough for you?

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
-Guybrush Threepwood-
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like undergroundp's post
15-05-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
I think it's offensive and dumb when atheist women say, "No, I'mFred, I will not have sex with you."

Like really! What's that supposed to mean???
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes I'mFred's post
15-05-2016, 03:01 PM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
I hate when I'm with a group of people and we run up a big bar tab and then some atheist will say, "Hey, I'mFred, your share is $125."

Words have fucking meaning people.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like I'mFred's post
15-05-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
One more. And this one really gets me. I'll be at some atheist's house and he'll be like, "I'mFred, you got drunk and pissed in my closet!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes I'mFred's post
15-05-2016, 03:14 PM
What makes an atheist?
OK, since my poor little thread has gotten entirely derailed I'm just going to run with it.

As I see it, the core of this argument is the definition of what is and is not an atheist.

Let's eliminate the obvious.

Are the inanimate qualified to be atheists? Heatheness feels that my holey socks should make the grade but I'm going to disagree. True, they do not believe in god but neither do they believe or disbelieve in anything else. They haven't a thought in their perforated little souls. Including the inanimate as atheists cheapens the term. It becomes meaningless by virtue of the fact that it includes nigh on everything. I'm content with "not a theist" but don't feel that really needs stating.

What of the plants, animals, fungi and single-celled organisms? Can they lay claim to atheism? Perhaps some of the sparkier animals have their own notion of god, chickens get some odd superstitions, but I can't imagine any of them subscribing to any god that humans churned out. Again, we cheapen the term by their inclusion.

Now we're down to humans things are going to get hairy. If these arguments look familiar it's with good reason.

If I was born an atheist, what was I a minute before I was born? An atheist. And a minute before that? Still an atheist. And nine months before that? Was the freshly fertilized ovum that would become me an atheist? It certainly didn't believe in god.

What then of the unfertilized ovum and the lucky sperm? Are we to consider them atheists too? Neither of them believe in god. This poses a problem though. My father was an atheist but my mother was a theist. At what point did part of her body become the atheist ovum that would become me? All of my grandparents were theists so at what point did my paternal grandparents' gametes become the atheists that my father would be?

We have arrived at an absurd answer. Biology has failed us. Precious little surprise. Atheism deals wth theology, philosophy and thought so looking to a biological process such as birth for a proper definition is going to produce some very odd results.

Undergroundp has the most effective definition that works well. The emphasis is mine.

(14-05-2016 02:16 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  An atheist. A person with no god.

So now we must take a trip down the rabbithole of personhood.

Is a newborn a person? My dog is disqualified from atheism by virtue of not being human. Dog does not believe in god, but dog is not an atheist. That aside, my dog displays a number of traits that the newborn lacks. It responds to it's name, learns tricks and doesn't shit on the carpet. By many benchmarks my dog is more of a person than any newborn.

If an atheist is a person, then if dog is not an atheist but dog is more person than the newborn, then the newborn has a hard time qualifying as either person or atheist. By this yardstick I would suggest that it is unreasonable to state that we are born atheists. Neither are we born theists. We are born blanks, some genetic predispositions waiting to suck up our surroundings.

When then do we become atheists? Hard to say since there is almost certainly no hard and fast line where we can say, "This is a person but this is not." My opinion is that we can put an upper limit on it with one of the staples of atheism, and skepticism as a whole.

Any statement made without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.

The capacity to accept or dismiss religion is sufficient to demonstrate that a person is an atheist. This capacity need not be exercised, merely present. The person need never be exposed to religion in order to think it daft if it were ever put to them. For me this represents an upper boundary and the newborn below the lower boundary. Personhood and atheism occur somewhere betwixt and between.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Paleophyte's post
15-05-2016, 03:22 PM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2016 03:29 PM by jabeady.)
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 02:51 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  As I said before, atheism is a state, not an opinion.

"If it can't be expressed in figures it's not science, it's an opinion." Lazarus Long

Your statement sounds like an opinion. At any rate, I maintain that most of us would prefer to begin the conversation at a more advanced, adult, point. Your insistence on a baby's atheism certainly hasn't helped move the conversation forward. Personally, I find discussion of adult-level atheism to be far more interesting and pertinent.

Quote:I have a degree on English language and literature, with a specialization in linguistics. Greece also happens to be a country where English is heard and spoken on a daily basis. Good enough for you?

Your unsupported claim is probably about as good for me as my unsupported claim of degrees in English, journalism and American history, with extensive education in theology and several years' professional experience in emergency medicine and immigration law is for you.

Oops! I left out the computer programming and electronics training, and computer game reviewing. Sorry.

Oh crap!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: