Dumb Atheist Sayings
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17-05-2016, 05:54 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 05:50 AM)morondog Wrote:  So I take it that either you assert that your God is not good, that he is not all powerful, or that evil does not exist in his creation?

I believe that God is good, all powerful, and evil exists in his creation.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 06:20 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
Wow, this thread got huge, and I can't be fucked to read through it all. On the off chance that people still care about dumb things (some) atheists say, I'll list a few:

Theists are just afraid of death/are just being swindled. This is basically a simple dismissal of other's beliefs. Sure, I bet it's true for some, but the reasons any given theist believes what they do are innumerable. I don't think either of these would have accurately described my near-30 years as a Christian.

Lol, the Bible has unicorns. We've all seen the picture of mythological things and dinosaurs saying "only one of these isn't in the Bible". Now, I think it's a funny joke and a good jab at the King James Version and it's crappy translations, but don't use this as an actual argument to prove "the Bible is full of silly things". The parts about rib-women, talking snakes, and virgin births do a good enough job of that, anyway.

<Problem of Evil argument>, therefore, God doesn't exist. This wouldn't disprove God, but rather prove that an all-loving, all-powerful god wouldn't exist in this world. Even that argument isn't going to get you far, because the apologist will just redefine "all loving" until it allow for really creepy things. Also, God is never actually stated as being "all good" or "all loving", which technically makes the argument a bit of a strawman. Sure, it can be good at poking holes in a lot of people's flawed theological beliefs (just because the Bible doesn't make this claim doesn't mean that a lot of Christians don't believe it), but you're not going to disprove the Christian god with it.

A whole bunch of gods were born on 12/25, born of a virgin, and were resurrected three days later. Jesus is just another copy! This takes a bunch of half truths and adds falsehoods to more closely link Jesus to a bunch of other gods to discredit the story. At the end of the day, there's no good proof any of the Gospel accounts are true, so just leave it at that and leave the burden of proof on the Christians. No need to spread lies.


I don't see many of these here, luckily.
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17-05-2016, 06:31 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 05:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 05:50 AM)morondog Wrote:  So I take it that either you assert that your God is not good, that he is not all powerful, or that evil does not exist in his creation?

I believe that God is good, all powerful, and evil exists in his creation.

So how do you square that with the Problem of Evil argument? Restated in case unclear:

If God is both good and all powerful
why does evil exist?

A good God should not allow evil things to happen. Especially to his worshipers?

For example. What is the purpose of malaria? Of AIDS? You're gonna tell me God's good despite allowing this suffering?

Oh by the way, tell me, is your God a fan of unbelief? Does he dislike people who assert that he's a made up load of shite? Will he get them when they're dead and make them pay?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-05-2016, 06:42 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 06:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  If God is both good and all powerful
why does evil exist?

Why can't it exist?

It doesn't follow for me that God being Good and all Powerful, means that evil cannot exist in his creation.

Quote:A good God should not allow evil things to happen. Especially to his worshipers?

For example. What is the purpose of malaria? Of AIDS? You're gonna tell me God's good despite allowing this suffering?

Yes, I believe God is good despite allowing evil and suffering to exist in his creation, and not excluding these things from occurring to his followers, and only to his detractors.

And it's not logically contradictory to hold such a belief.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 06:47 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 06:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 06:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  If God is both good and all powerful
why does evil exist?

Why can't it exist?

It doesn't follow for me that God being Good and all Powerful, means that evil cannot exist in his creation.

Quote:A good God should not allow evil things to happen. Especially to his worshipers?

For example. What is the purpose of malaria? Of AIDS? You're gonna tell me God's good despite allowing this suffering?

Yes, I believe God is good despite allowing evil and suffering to exist in his creation, and not excluding these things from occurring to his followers, and only to his detractors.

And it's not logically contradictory to hold such a belief.

Elucidate.

What is the point of God, who could cure all human disease, allowing it to continue? If he is all-Good, does he desire us to suffer?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-05-2016, 07:22 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 06:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  What is the point of God, who could cure all human disease, allowing it to continue? If he is all-Good, does he desire us to suffer?

He desired to create world in which suffering exists, for both believers and unbelievers alike. And not just suffering, tragedy, joy, love, hope, meaning, etc... exists as well, and these ideas are interwoven to a considerable degree.

And such a creation, a world both monstrous and as hideous as a brutalized hanging man on a cross, and redemptive doesn't negate his Goodness.

Perhaps those whose idea of Goodness, is considerably more saccharine than mine, more representative of a Disney Film than anything else, embodied more by a liberal humanistic ideal, wouldn't agree, but that's not my problem.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 06:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  What is the point of God, who could cure all human disease, allowing it to continue? If he is all-Good, does he desire us to suffer?

He desired to create world in which suffering exists, for both believers and unbelievers alike. And not just suffering, tragedy, joy, love, hope, meaning, etc... exists as well, and these ideas are interwoven to a considerable degree.

And such a creation, a world both monstrous and as hideous as a brutalized hanging man on a cross, and redemptive doesn't negate his Goodness.

Perhaps those whose idea of Goodness, is considerably more saccharine than mine, more representative of a Disney Film than anything else, embodied more by a liberal humanistic ideal, wouldn't agree, but that's not my problem.

im sure this would be great comfort to all the children dying of bone cancer and starving to death. knowing that their suffering is ''interwoven'' into all these other nice things that they will never experience. yay for gawd.
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17-05-2016, 07:32 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 06:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yes, I believe God is good despite allowing evil and suffering to exist in his creation, and not excluding these things from occurring to his followers, and only to his detractors.

And it's not logically contradictory to hold such a belief.

Possibly, however the god of the bible doesn't just allow evil to happen. He inflicts evil, via his intermediaries (moses) and by his own hand (Egypt's firstborn).

(16-05-2016 02:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, that's exactly what the problem of evil is not about. It's not about the depiction of God in the bible, but the existence of evil in the world. In fact you would be doing exactly what you accused me of doing, redefining the problem of evil, to make this argument of yours work.

The Problem of Evil is not limited to the christian bible. No one here has disputed that. However the PoE most certainly can be applied to the bible.

An analogy would be applying a law to an incident to see if the incident was a crime.

The PoE can be applied to the bible and that application is logical and sound.

As I mentioned earlier, men such as Thomas Aquinas, have written on the subject and attempted to resolve the dilemmas presented by it. These are the men who conceived the doctrines of the church as we understand them, who laid the foundations for the christian beliefs.

You can argue to defend the bible but you can not logically argue that it does not apply.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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17-05-2016, 07:33 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 07:29 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  im sure this would be great comfort to all the children dying of bone cancer and starving to death. knowing that their suffering is ''interwoven'' into all these other nice things that they will never experience. yay for gawd.

Yep, yay gawd.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 06:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  What is the point of God, who could cure all human disease, allowing it to continue? If he is all-Good, does he desire us to suffer?

He desired to create world in which suffering exists, for both believers and unbelievers alike. And not just suffering, tragedy, joy, love, hope, meaning, etc... exists as well, and these ideas are interwoven to a considerable degree.

And such a creation, a world both monstrous and as hideous as a brutalized hanging man on a cross, and redemptive doesn't negate his Goodness.

Perhaps those whose idea of Goodness, is considerably more saccharine than mine, more representative of a Disney Film than anything else, embodied more by a liberal humanistic ideal, wouldn't agree, but that's not my problem.

translation:
"If I define 'good' as having qualities of evil, then my god is good and evil can still exist. But evil exists as evil in the world and the 'evil' qualities of my god are actually 'good' qualities because I don't understand contradiction."

Drinking Beverage

Ever going to go back to the other thread you abandoned to address me?



Edit to add to the translation:
"But I am totally not here to preach my theistic bullshit. I'm here to learn. See all the learning I'm doing and all the preaching I am totally not doing?"

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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