Dumb Atheist Sayings
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17-05-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  He desired to create world in which suffering exists, for both believers and unbelievers alike. And not just suffering, tragedy, joy, love, hope, meaning, etc... exists as well, and these ideas are interwoven to a considerable degree.

How interesting. You claim to know the mind of god?

(17-05-2016 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And such a creation, a world both monstrous and as hideous as a brutalized hanging man on a cross, and redemptive doesn't negate his Goodness.

Yeah, that doesn't hold water.

god creates sinful, flawed people, and gets angry when people are flawed and sinful.
god sets up rules against sin, knowing that people cannot follow the rules.
god sets up a loophole in his own rules that requires a blood sacrifice.
god sacrifices jesus (himself) to god (himself) to loophole the rules that god (himself) set up.

And there's the whole concept of scapegoating, which is inherently unethical.

And the concept of eternal torture for mortal sins.

(17-05-2016 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Perhaps those whose idea of Goodness, is considerably more saccharine than mine, more representative of a Disney Film than anything else, embodied more by a liberal humanistic ideal, wouldn't agree, but that's not my problem.

It's one thing to say god allows disease, natural disaster and man's evil. But the foundational texts of christianity do not show a kind, patient loving creator.

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17-05-2016, 07:44 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 07:42 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  He desired to create world in which suffering exists, for both believers and unbelievers alike. And not just suffering, tragedy, joy, love, hope, meaning, etc... exists as well, and these ideas are interwoven to a considerable degree.

How interesting. You claim to know the mind of god?

(17-05-2016 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And such a creation, a world both monstrous and as hideous as a brutalized hanging man on a cross, and redemptive doesn't negate his Goodness.

Yeah, that doesn't hold water.

god creates sinful, flawed people, and gets angry when people are flawed and sinful.
god sets up rules against sin, knowing that people cannot follow the rules.
god sets up a loophole in his own rules that requires a blood sacrifice.
god sacrifices jesus (himself) to god (himself) to loophole the rules that god (himself) set up.

And there's the whole concept of scapegoating, which is inherently unethical.

And the concept of eternal torture for mortal sins.

(17-05-2016 07:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Perhaps those whose idea of Goodness, is considerably more saccharine than mine, more representative of a Disney Film than anything else, embodied more by a liberal humanistic ideal, wouldn't agree, but that's not my problem.

It's one thing to say god allows disease, natural disaster and man's evil. But the foundational texts of christianity do not show a kind, patient loving creator.

TommyBoy not only knows the mind of god, he claims to know more about a person than that person does. He's a fucking clairvoyant. Drinking Beverage

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17-05-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
Agnostic Atheism is fence sitting... that's a dumb thing atheists say I suppose (does this thread really need to be tomsy apologetics thread #124?)

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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17-05-2016, 07:54 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 07:46 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Agnostic Atheism is fence sitting... that's a dumb thing atheists say I suppose (does this thread really need to be tomsy apologetics thread #124?)

Or just that agnostics are fence-sitters or "weak atheists."

Atheists applying labels to other non-religious folk is a bit tiring. How someone defines themselves and their beliefs, is on them.

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17-05-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 07:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "If I define 'good' as having qualities of evil, then my god is good and evil can still exist. But evil exists as evil in the world and the 'evil' qualities of my god are actually 'good' qualities because I don't understand contradiction."

The belief that Good and all powerful being can create a world in which evil exists, is not a contradictory belief.

A point that should be apparent particularly if you subscribe to subjective morality, where the concept of morally Good has no objective meaning, just a variety of subjective ones.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 08:08 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 08:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 07:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "If I define 'good' as having qualities of evil, then my god is good and evil can still exist. But evil exists as evil in the world and the 'evil' qualities of my god are actually 'good' qualities because I don't understand contradiction."

The belief that Good and all powerful being can create a world in which evil exists, is not a contradictory belief.

A point that should be apparent particularly if you subscribe to subjective morality, where the concept of morally Good has no objective meaning, just a variety of subjective ones.

A belief that bad and evil qualities can be used to describe a perfectly "good" being is contradictory.

A point that should be obvious to anyone who has a functioning brain.

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17-05-2016, 08:14 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 07:42 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  How interesting. You claim to know the mind of god?

Here, only in the sense that I can say that Dostoevsky desired to write a book like The Brothers Karamazov, and that Picasso desired to paint a painting like Guernica. Or that artists out of his own volition, paint what they desires to paint.

Quote:And there's the whole concept of scapegoating, which is inherently unethical.

Is that an objectively true statement? Or just a subjective one? Is it merely your personal opinion, or is it a fact?

( I'm ignoring addressing all the variety of beliefs you seem to want to ascribe to me, which I don't hold)

Quote:It's one thing to say god allows disease, natural disaster and man's evil. But the foundational texts of christianity do not show a kind, patient loving creator.

The foundational texts of Christianity reveal a God of Love. You may disagree, but it says more about our conceptions of Love than anything else.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 08:21 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 07:46 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Agnostic Atheism is fence sitting... that's a dumb thing atheists say I suppose (does this thread really need to be tomsy apologetics thread #124?)

Apparently the answer to your question is yes Drinking Beverage

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17-05-2016, 08:21 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 08:08 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  A belief that bad and evil qualities can be used to describe a perfectly "good" being is contradictory.


You believe particular qualities are bad, I believe the same particular qualities are not bad. In regards to subjective morality, neither of us are wrong or right, therefore no contradiction can exist.

Unless you want to claim that x qualities is objectively bad (morally that is), your appeal to contradictions doesn't hold. In fact if you subscribe to subjective morality, and claim this is a contradiction, you're the one who would be holding contradictory beliefs, which a bit of cognitive dissonance is preventing you from acknowledging.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-05-2016, 08:27 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(17-05-2016 08:21 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 08:08 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  A belief that bad and evil qualities can be used to describe a perfectly "good" being is contradictory.


You believe particular qualities are bad, I believe the same particular qualities are not bad. In regards to subjective morality, neither of us are wrong or right, therefore no contradiction can exist.

Unless you want to claim that x qualities is objectively bad (morally that is), your appeal to contradictions doesn't hold. In fact if you subscribe to subjective morality, and claim this is a contradiction, you're the one who would be holding contradictory beliefs, which a bit of cognitive dissonance is preventing you from acknowledging.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ at the bullshit you spew forth. Trying to turn a belief in subjective morality around as a way of defending your belief in objective morality is so logically inconsistent that it is devoid of any meaningful substance.

Or to put it another way, YOU believe in objective morality which means that it is on YOU to demonstrate it. Trying to muddle the conversation by using MY belief in subjective morality to dodge your burden of proof, is intellectually dishonest.

Furthermore, this is yet another aside (red herring) to shift the conversation away from preaching about your god.

You're so dishonest in the way you converse and engage with people here, that you literally can't see it or just really don't give a shit. For instance, what is the topic of this thread and where have you tried to steer the conversation? Consider

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