Dumb Atheist Sayings
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-05-2016, 06:04 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 05:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 05:36 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You don't think there is a difference between the way an adult uses their brain and a child?

I guess that isn't surprising. You've taken your imaginary friend and extrapolated it all the way to a god.

I don't see a difference between the way my brain works compared to a typical adult brain, or that my thinking capacity is any less that of normal adult human being.

You're the one that claimed, "I never grew up beyond the thinking capacity of a child", and indoctrination is preventing me from the seeing that. And I'm asking you what it is I'm supposedly not seeing in typical adult thinking capacities?

It's already been pointed out to you numerous times by myself and others. But you clearly lack the capacity to comprehend it. Laugh out load

You literally describe yourself as indoctrinated (you don't know how not to believe) because you've been encouraged to believe and discouraged from questioning since you were a kid (your "self-evident" beliefs from childhood). But you've also claimed that you're not as biased by societal upbringing as other humans (somehow. Maybe because, like Trump, you've got a "good" brain?). So how would one ever describe to you all the errors you've made beyond what has already been said numerous times by numerous people?

And on top of that, you don't really want us to answer or give responses to your questions. How do I know this? Because you just think we are trying to indoctrinate YOU!

It's a perfect example of circular logic:
"I believe because I've always believed, but not because I was told about god but that I was special and just knew, and anyone criticizing those beliefs and telling me god isn't real is just trying to indoctrinate me. For example, the atheists on this atheist forum that I (a Christian) have come to don't buy my religious beliefs and criticize them and mock them, they're just trying to indoctrinate me."

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-05-2016, 06:23 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 05:51 AM)morondog Wrote:  The thing is, one does not challenge "self-evident" things purely by convention - there's somewhat of an agreement that challenging them is a bit of a waste of time. But then every now and then someone does come along and say "But what if?" In the case of geometry, when people *started* challenging the accepted Euclidean axioms, many new and interesting things were discovered, you didn't *have* to accept them as they were.

Well clearly times have changed and circumstances have changed from what my parents grew up around. New country, circumstances, television, social media, etc... For my parents, challenges to their belief were fairly non-existent. Living in a predominantly christian nation now, those challenges are everywhere, unavoidable, doubt not just about your particular beliefs, but even about the very existence of God appear, where for a former generation such doubt would have been unthinkable.

But the thing here is, that I already believe in God, I can't choose not to believe in God. I can't stop myself from believing now, making myself lack a belief, than deliberate whether or not God exists, as if I don't hold a position already. So what am I doing when fostering doubts, or new challenges, that haven't particularly undermined this belief? They get swallowed into my self-justification. I acquire other beliefs that alleviate any previously arising doubt, there by sustaining what I held as self-evident.

Quote:If you want to claim an objective existence for your God - i.e. that God exists outside your brain - and you want us to agree, then you can't just say "self-evident, QED".

I don't think in terms of how do I convince atheists, or strangers on the internet, such as yourself, lol. Just like the beliefs you hold different than mine, are not dependent on whether you can get me to buy them. At best you might be interested in what your peers and friends might think, but clearly not the stranger of a theists, you don't care all that much about.

At best, I can consider why do I believe the things I do, contemplate all the factors that contributed one way or the other here.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Tomasia's post
19-05-2016, 06:36 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 06:23 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  But the thing here is, that I already believe in God, I can't choose not to believe in God. I can't stop myself from believing now, making myself lack a belief, than deliberate whether or not God exists, as if I don't hold a position already. So what am I doing when fostering doubts, or new challenges, that haven't particularly undermined this belief? They get swallowed into my self-justification. I acquire other beliefs that alleviate any previously arising doubt, there by sustaining what I held as self-evident.
Your belief, you seem to admit, is totally unjustified. You believe it because that's what you've always done. This doesn't bother you at all?

Quote:
Quote:If you want to claim an objective existence for your God - i.e. that God exists outside your brain - and you want us to agree, then you can't just say "self-evident, QED".

I don't think in terms of how do I convince atheists, or strangers on the internet, such as yourself, lol. Just like the beliefs you hold different than mine, are not dependent on whether you can get me to buy them. At best you might be interested in what your peers and friends might think, but clearly not the stranger of a theists, you don't care all that much about.

At best, I can consider why do I believe the things I do, contemplate all the factors that contributed one way or the other here.

I don't particularly care what you think, because you're slippery. It takes a great effort to get a straight answer out of you. But in general I have cared a great deal about what others think - particularly theists. After all, I was brought up as one.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like morondog's post
19-05-2016, 06:44 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 06:04 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You literally describe yourself as indoctrinated (you don't know how not to believe) because you've been encouraged to believe and discouraged from questioning since you were a kid (your "self-evident" beliefs from childhood).

I was never discouraged from questioning as a child. When my parents took it as self-evident, it also meant that they took these beliefs for granted. For them to discourage me from questioning, they'd have to have some fears, which for them didn't exist. Which does seem to exist for parents now, particularly in the western world. Parents fearing that their children might one day lose their faith, is a thought that would've never even occurred to my parents.

As far as thinking goes, the young me, felt a great deal of freedom in how he could think about anything. No one shamed me from thinking any particular way, not that everybody knew what the curious me was thinking about anyways. Nobody to say that atheism is a dirty word, because atheists didn't even register on anyone's threat meter, they were more worried about listening to Rap Music, or being abducted by Koreans.

In fact the group that attempts to discourage me from thinking of things the way I do, are atheists like yourself. Other than I've felt a considerable amount of freedom to believe this, or that. I can say that if one day I became an atheist, I wouldn't fear losing a single friend or family member over it either.

Quote: How do I know this? Because you just think we are trying to indoctrinate YOU!

I was just messing with you, for setting the bar so low for indoctrination, as primarily sharing some of the beliefs your parents and community hold. I don't really think you're trying to indoctrinate me. Which would seem to apply to any parents, or community that raises their children as anything less than a blank slate.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-05-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 06:36 AM)morondog Wrote:  Your belief, you seem to admit, is totally unjustified. You believe it because that's what you've always done. This doesn't bother you at all?

I don't believe because that's what I've always done, but because I don't know how not to believe.

But I can think of beliefs, that if I could actually get myself to hold with a straight face, disbelief might be result. But I have no power to make myself hold them.

Like a belief, that I have to reserve myself to beliefs that are reducible to scientific experiments, that are about the physical properties of matter. That ontological beliefs are to be entirely avoided. That I am to lack a belief in regards to such questions. That I should avoid questions such as whether life has meaning, if there's a purpose to it. I should only hold what's true, that's the supposed result of impersonal, non-subjective evaluations. That I should lack a belief in anything outside of these defined parameters.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-05-2016, 07:14 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 06:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  In fact the group that attempts to discourage me from thinking of things the way I do, are atheists like yourself.

You come to a forum that is the direct polar opposite of your professed belief.
You admit that you come here with the desire to "invade personal space" and "get under peoples' skin".
You engage in dishonest debate tactics.

And we are trying to discourage you.

The irony is staggering. Drinking Beverage

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Fatbaldhobbit's post
19-05-2016, 07:27 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 07:01 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 06:36 AM)morondog Wrote:  Your belief, you seem to admit, is totally unjustified. You believe it because that's what you've always done. This doesn't bother you at all?

I don't believe because that's what I've always done, but because I don't know how not to believe.

But I can think of beliefs, that if I could actually get myself to hold with a straight face, disbelief might be result. But I have no power to make myself hold them.

Like a belief, that I have to reserve myself to beliefs that are reducible to scientific experiments, that are about the physical properties of matter. That ontological beliefs are to be entirely avoided. That I am to lack a belief in regards to such questions. That I should avoid questions such as whether life has meaning, if there's a purpose to it. I should only hold what's true, that's the supposed result of impersonal, non-subjective evaluations. That I should lack a belief in anything outside of these defined parameters.

Which is why the notion of believing having any value to any sway or notion of reward or disapproval is nonsensical on any front.

Strange how you seem to connect the notions of these questions one could have in an absolute or aggressively sidestepped way. So to you telling someone to doubt their own existence in your retelling of how its something you cant do its AVOID thinking you Do exist? That's how you have phrased these topics here, as if that is honestly how you see the propositions. It's a contrived defensive shell if that is the real way the idea of questioning is seen and not just some eloquated rhetoric made in it's oppressive form.

Perhaps the only AVOIDing you should do is avoiding presuming constantly to know what other people think and do. Just again posts here you say oh you wouldn't care what a random person you dont know thinks... according to whom? Actually some people have mentalities that care more about strangers, it manifests in ways as being nicer to strangers than people they know. They can be more comfortable talking and caring about the emotions of strangers than those of close companions. Some people also on forums like this don't really care about fellow atheist friends or the like and may only be actually focused on the stranger theist debates... hell you're here in this notion, I guess it means you don't really care about what the random atheists say though if your reflection on others is reflected upon yourself. You're just here to ramble some more I suppose.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-05-2016, 07:49 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 06:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 06:04 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You literally describe yourself as indoctrinated (you don't know how not to believe) because you've been encouraged to believe and discouraged from questioning since you were a kid (your "self-evident" beliefs from childhood).

I was never discouraged from questioning as a child. When my parents took it as self-evident, it also meant that they took these beliefs for granted. For them to discourage me from questioning, they'd have to have some fears, which for them didn't exist. Which does seem to exist for parents now, particularly in the western world. Parents fearing that their children might one day lose their faith, is a thought that would've never even occurred to my parents.

As far as thinking goes, the young me, felt a great deal of freedom in how he could think about anything. No one shamed me from thinking any particular way, not that everybody knew what the curious me was thinking about anyways. Nobody to say that atheism is a dirty word, because atheists didn't even register on anyone's threat meter, they were more worried about listening to Rap Music, or being abducted by Koreans.

In fact the group that attempts to discourage me from thinking of things the way I do, are atheists like yourself. Other than I've felt a considerable amount of freedom to believe this, or that. I can say that if one day I became an atheist, I wouldn't fear losing a single friend or family member over it either.

Quote: How do I know this? Because you just think we are trying to indoctrinate YOU!

I was just messing with you, for setting the bar so low for indoctrination, as primarily sharing some of the beliefs your parents and community hold. I don't really think you're trying to indoctrinate me. Which would seem to apply to any parents, or community that raises their children as anything less than a blank slate.

"I was never discouraged from questioning as a child. When my parents took it as self-evident, it also meant that they took these beliefs for granted."

And you still don't understand what it means to have been indoctrinated.

"For them to discourage me from questioning, they'd have to have some fears, which for them didn't exist. "

And you still don't understand what it means to have been indoctrinated.

"Which does seem to exist for parents now, particularly in the western world."

Broad generalizations are useless. Especially those that artificially segregate populations of people. Demonstrate that the modern western world has more fears that cause parents to question things than:
1) the past western world
2) the modern eastern world
3) the past eastern world

Drinking Beverage we will wait (and since you are the one saying that it is the western world "now" that has these fears, you'll need to be the one to define when the "past" and "modern" versions of the eastern and western worlds is. Past (not "now" but "then") = pre-20th century? etc, etc, etc)

This is a great example of you not understanding the difference between something that might be considered a widespread and fact-based observation, and your own inherent biases driving your generalizations about groups that are different from yourself. For instance, another example would be:
"In fact the group that attempts to discourage me from thinking of things the way I do, are atheists like yourself."

I discourage you from being a lying twat. I discourage you from thinking you're special. I discourage you from thinking that you possess mental powers that exceed the capability of the human brain. YOU have chosen to come to an atheist forum and then YOU criticize being criticized and having your ridiculous myth-based beliefs mocked as ridiculous and myth-based? As FatBaldHobbitt says, the irony is palpable.

"As far as thinking goes, the young me, felt a great deal of freedom in how he could think about anything. No one shamed me from thinking any particular way, not that everybody knew what the curious me was thinking about anyways. Nobody to say that atheism is a dirty word, because atheists didn't even register on anyone's threat meter, they were more worried about listening to Rap Music, or being abducted by Koreans. "

I seriously don't give a shit about your interpretations of your indoctrinated childhood from the perspective of your indoctrinated adulthood. Nothing could interest me less than the musings of an ignorant child being professed by an ignorant adult.

"I was just messing with you, for setting the bar so low for indoctrination, as primarily sharing some of the beliefs your parents and community hold. "

Show me where I described indoctrination as "sharing some of the beliefs your parents and community hold." Drinking Beverage I'll wait (like I always do for you because you never deliver anything to substantiate your claims or straw men)

"I don't really think you're trying to indoctrinate me. Which would seem to apply to any parents, or community that raises their children as anything less than a blank slate."

Once again, you use a straw man version of what I actually did say. You think I am trying to teach you like you are a child? If you were my kid, I would have long since pulled my hair out and gotten a DNA test.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like TheBeardedDude's post
19-05-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 07:27 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Which is why the notion of believing having any value to any sway or notion of reward or disapproval is nonsensical on any front.

Strange how you seem to connect the notions of these questions one could have in an absolute or aggressively sidestepped way. So to you telling someone to doubt their own existence in your retelling of how its something you cant do its AVOID thinking you Do exist?

I didn't put in terms of thinking, but in terms of believing. I can think about a variety of things that I don't believe in. I can think of a variety of what if scenarios. I can think of what it might mean for God to not exist. But I can't believe that God doesn't exist. I can't say to myself hey man, believe God doesn't exist, in the same way I can't say hey man think of summer.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-05-2016, 07:51 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 07:49 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If you were my kid, I would have long since pulled my hair out and gotten a DNA test.

According to Tommy the DNA test is unnecessary - as long as you take the belief that you're not his Dad as self-evident.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: