Dumb Atheist Sayings
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19-05-2016, 08:43 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 08:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 07:49 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If you were my kid, I would have long since pulled my hair out and gotten a DNA test.

Yes, if your white wife, pushed out a little brown kid with nappy hair out of her vagina, you better be getting a DNA test, lol.

You do realize the other option is that I fucked your mother, right? Drinking Beverage

You should probably step away from this subject because it's making it clear that you don't understand context.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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19-05-2016, 08:48 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 08:26 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 07:54 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  That's not quite the way it works. You don't have to "stop yourself from believing" in order to question your beliefs. That semantic question aside, the majority of present-day atheists have done exactly what you claim is impossible for you to do. They were raised as theists, questioned those beliefs at some point, and concluded that atheism makes more sense. There's no reason you couldn't do the same thing (although you might not reach the same conclusion).

You're right I can question my beliefs. I questioned my beliefs at many different points of my life, and concluded that theism makes more sense to me, than it's alternatives.
What am I saying has nothing to do with the ability to question my beliefs, or to contemplate doubts.

But the idea of stopping myself from believing. I don't believe it's matter of me contemplating any particular sets of questions. That all that would be required for me not to believe, is the ability to accurately contemplate a particular question, or a particular set of questions.

Well no, you can't just "stop yourself from believing" by an act of will, anymore than an atheist can "make himself believe" by an act of will. But it should be possible to change your mind in the face of compelling evidence that is contrary to your belief. As far as the existence of some sort of God, there really isn't any compelling evidence that I know of either for or against -- however, most atheists feel that if God exists, there should be some evidence. Lacking such evidence, they conclude that God's existence is unlikely. But I'm willing to leave that as an open question.

However, when you consider the Christian God specifically, the entire Bible narrative is utterly preposterous, and so is basic Christian theology. All you have to do is read the Bible with an open mind, and it is "self-evident" (to use your own phrase) that this is fiction, and for large parts of it, it is also self-evident who stands to gain from this fiction -- and that would be the priests who wrote much of it. As a "true" story of how God relates to humans, it makes no sense at all. I was raised as a Christian (Catholic, to be specific), and swallowed it all (my childhood ambition was to be a priest) until I got old enough to start thinking about it and questioning it. And then it quickly became obvious that it was all bullshit. Any thinking adult who continues to accept this specific God must have been very thoroughly indoctrinated. And that is self-evident.

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19-05-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 08:36 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
Quote:"You’re the one that claimed I was indoctrinated as a child."

I'm just taking the shit you say, at face value:
"I don't know how not to believe."

Quote:Your religion indoctrinated you. Your parents were either complacent or participatory. It doesn't matter, and I don't give a shit.

How did my religion indoctrinate me? You must know something about the ethnic christian community that I was a part of, to claim that. So I want to hear more about what you can tell me about my own particular history.

Quote:I didn't make any claims about your upbringing or your parents or what you were like as a child.

Except the the claim you just made above.

Quote:That is not what I said. Try again (you make a straw man trying to say I made a straw man)

Quote:Ergo, what fears does the western world of "now" have that cause parents to question (the context here is religious beliefs) more than:
1) the past western world
2) the modern eastern world
3) the past eastern world


A fear that their children might one day grow up to not believe.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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19-05-2016, 09:41 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 08:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yes, if your white wife, pushed out a little brown baby with nappy hair out of her vagina, you better be getting a DNA test, lol.
I find this mildly offensive. Am I being overly sensitive?

Oh crap!
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19-05-2016, 09:51 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 09:41 AM)jabeady Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 08:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yes, if your white wife, pushed out a little brown baby with nappy hair out of her vagina, you better be getting a DNA test, lol.
I find this mildly offensive. Am I being overly sensitive?

Oh crap!

yes you are being overly sensitive.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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19-05-2016, 09:56 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 09:41 AM)jabeady Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 08:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yes, if your white wife, pushed out a little brown baby with nappy hair out of her vagina, you better be getting a DNA test, lol.
I find this mildly offensive. Am I being overly sensitive?

Oh crap!

Considering that Tomasia is a "person of color", no, it's not offensive.
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19-05-2016, 09:59 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 09:11 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 08:36 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I'm just taking the shit you say, at face value:
"I don't know how not to believe."

Quote:Your religion indoctrinated you. Your parents were either complacent or participatory. It doesn't matter, and I don't give a shit.

How did my religion indoctrinate me? You must know something about the ethnic christian community that I was a part of, to claim that. So I want to hear more about what you can tell me about my own particular history.

Quote:I didn't make any claims about your upbringing or your parents or what you were like as a child.

Except the the claim you just made above.

Quote:That is not what I said. Try again (you make a straw man trying to say I made a straw man)

Quote:Ergo, what fears does the western world of "now" have that cause parents to question (the context here is religious beliefs) more than:
1) the past western world
2) the modern eastern world
3) the past eastern world


A fear that their children might one day grow up to not believe.

"How did my religion indoctrinate me? You must know something about the ethnic christian community that I was a part of, to claim that. So I want to hear more about what you can tell me about my own particular history."

How does a specific religion indoctrinate people? You've already explained it detail, they present to you a version of reality that makes it literally impossible for you to believe any other alternative ("I don't know how not to believe").

I don't know the details of your childhood, and don't care. Your specific religious experience is highly unlikely to be different than most.

"Except the the claim you just made above. "

Taking what you say and using it against you, isn't me "making claims."

"A fear that their children might one day grow up to not believe."

^this doesn't even come close to answering the question I asked you. This literally just restates the claim YOU made and that I am asking you to explain and support with real evidence and logic.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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19-05-2016, 10:13 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 09:56 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(19-05-2016 09:41 AM)jabeady Wrote:  I find this mildly offensive. Am I being overly sensitive?

Oh crap!

Considering that Tomasia is a "person of color", no, it's not offensive.
OK, I wasn't aware of that.



Oh crap!
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19-05-2016, 10:27 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
Believe what? Will the children's not believe in magic or that unicorns are endangered species in the future?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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19-05-2016, 12:49 PM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(19-05-2016 08:48 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  [quote]Well no, you can't just "stop yourself from believing" by an act of will, anymore than an atheist can "make himself believe" by an act of will. But it should be possible to change your mind in the face of compelling evidence that is contrary to your belief. As far as the existence of some sort of God, there really isn't any compelling evidence that I know of either for or against -- however, most atheists feel that if God exists, there should be some evidence.

There’s a couple things to say here.

One, is normally when we ask what’s the evidence for something. Such at what the evidence he committed the crime, that my wife is cheating. The person asking the question, and the one being asked, has some sort of idea as to what is be sought for here.

When atheists ask for evidence of God, it never seems to be all that clear what any particular atheists is asking for. Only obstructed by the fact that there’s a variety of atheists, like Jerry Coyne, and Dawkins who would say that they can’t think of any type of evidence that would lead them to such a conclusion.

The brain process a variety of information taken in by variety of sensory inputs, and draws inferences from this. It doesn’t seem to me that many atheists will agree with the statement, that all the data or information, the brain draws these inferences from in regards to what’s true or not, constitutes as evidence. So the criteria is bit more restrictive than that.

It seem to be a criteria that would apply both to the conclusion and data used in support of it, namely that it would have to be reducible to a sort of laboratorial confirmation, or scientific confirmation, confirming some new and undiscovered substance, or forces beyond the fundamental laws of physics, that we can call supernatural, that might then be categorized as analogous to God’s fingerprints.

But what happens when you hold certain things that are true, that are not really about this at all, that are not claims about the movements of molecules? For staters there’s not going to be any evidence that fits this predefined criteria to supply you with, like traces of ectoplasm.

But what does this mean in terms of getting me to not believe? That “not believing here” , is not really about evidence, compelling evidence, etc.. To not believe, would require me to subscribe to a different set of beliefs, that place limits on the sort of stuff I can draw inferences from. I’d have to believe that I can only hold what is true, based on specific kind of criteria, and the parameters common to atheists such as yourself, and pledge to lack a belief in anything outside of those parameters. I’d have to sort of subscribe to a variety of presuppositions common to folks such as yourself, and one’s that I don’t currently hold.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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