Dumb Atheist Sayings
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24-05-2016, 09:08 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(24-05-2016 08:17 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If the universe were teleological, existed for a purpose, that human life and history are a part of a story, has intrinsic meaning, that our lives are directed to something, that elicits our desire for meaning, and purposeful life, more so than surviving.

What would the evidence of purpose look like?

I wouldn't call this a purpose:

[Image: YouAreHere.jpg]

We're a byproduct at best.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-05-2016, 09:12 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
I wonder if theists would be so gung-ho if it turned out we did have a purpose, but it wasn't a positive one.

What if our only purpose was to serve as a bad example for the real "chosen people"...

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24-05-2016, 09:18 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(24-05-2016 09:12 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I wonder if theists would be so gung-ho if it turned out we did have a purpose, but it wasn't a positive one.

What if our only purpose was to serve as a bad example for the real "chosen people"...

I don't think the Christian god's purpose is a good one, it's basically slavery to a deity forever, complete with undeserved worship and relatives/loved ones roasting in hell for eternity that didn't believe.

But that's ok, you can have a nice chat with Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven while your unbelieving loved ones roast in hell.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-05-2016, 09:30 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(24-05-2016 08:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence of purpose.

Translation: Chas see's no purpose to it all.

Now for me personally, a system with properties, when placed in certain combination produces sentient life. The ability of matter to organize itself into conscious, self-aware beings, with moral, creative, rational capacities, who seek goodness, meaning, and truth, who can explore the question of where the came from, with a sense that there's something more to it all, a sense that it's a part of a transcendent order. Such features to me would be evidence of purpose. I'm not sure how folks like yourself are able to look at features like these and imagine a purposeless, nihilistic universe, but hey that's you.

I see my own internal striving, for meaning, direction to what's Good and True, not a product of my environment, but driven by something deeper and more primordial than than that. That I at some level am seeking after what's true, and brought light to everything else.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-05-2016, 09:37 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(24-05-2016 09:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-05-2016 08:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence of purpose.

Translation: Chas see's no purpose to it all.

No, that is your ridiculous take on it. If you have evidence, present it.

Quote:Now for me personally, a system with properties, when placed in certain combination produces sentient life. The ability of matter to organize itself into conscious, self-aware beings, with moral, creative, rational capacities, who seek goodness, meaning, and truth, who can explore the question of where the came from, with a sense that there's something more to it all, a sense that it's a part of a transcendent order. Such features to me would be evidence of purpose. I'm not sure how folks like yourself are able to look at features like these and imagine a purposeless, nihilistic universe, but hey that's you.

Your incredulity is not evidence nor is it the least bit compelling.
All of the evidence from the physical universe supports natural causes.

Quote:I see my own internal striving, for meaning, direction to what's Good and True, not a product of my environment, but driven by something deeper and more primordial than than that. That I at some level am seeking after what's true, and brought light to everything else.

Again, generalizing your need for explanation is not a compelling argument.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-05-2016, 09:39 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(24-05-2016 09:08 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(24-05-2016 08:17 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If the universe were teleological, existed for a purpose, that human life and history are a part of a story, has intrinsic meaning, that our lives are directed to something, that elicits our desire for meaning, and purposeful life, more so than surviving.

What would the evidence of purpose look like?

I wouldn't call this a purpose:

[Image: YouAreHere.jpg]

We're a byproduct at best.

I don't think the idea of us standing in the midst of a grand and expansive universe, looks purposeless. I won't say it looks purposeful either, but that it exists in the background of something poetic about our inner lives, a sense of wonder, of beauty, tragedy, suffering, hope, kindness, love, meaning, truth, often times converging on one thing, that our lives, , maybe for some more than others, seems so provoked by it.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-05-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(24-05-2016 09:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your incredulity is not evidence nor is it the least bit compelling.
All of the evidence from the physical universe supports natural causes.


Purposeful causes don't necessarily negate natural causes. The question is whether or not the evidence of our physical universe support nihilism, purposelessness. The argument for which are not only far from compelling, very few, even among unbelievers seem to believe it is. They're more comfortable lacking a belief instead.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-05-2016, 09:49 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(24-05-2016 09:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-05-2016 09:08 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I wouldn't call this a purpose:

[Image: YouAreHere.jpg]

We're a byproduct at best.

I don't think the idea of us standing in the midst of a grand and expansive universe, looks purposeless. I won't say it looks purposeful either, but that it exists in the background of something poetic about our inner lives, a sense of wonder, of beauty, tragedy, suffering, hope, kindness, love, meaning, truth, often times converging on one thing, that our lives, , maybe for some more than others, seems so provoked by it.

You just formulated a rationale for an unfalsifiable viewpoint. Facepalm

Would you also apply that same rationale for all of the species that have went extinct in several mass extinction events?

You use a lot of subjective terms based from primate emotions, how does this viewpoint apply to non-primate species that don't have human emotions?

Please provide a concise explanation without Chopraisms that explain mass extinction events and how those precisely fulfill the role of purpose from a deity.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-05-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(24-05-2016 09:45 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-05-2016 09:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your incredulity is not evidence nor is it the least bit compelling.
All of the evidence from the physical universe supports natural causes.


Purposeful causes don't necessarily negate natural causes. The question is whether or not the evidence of our physical universe support nihilism, purposelessness. The argument for which are not only far from compelling, very few, even among unbelievers seem to believe it is. They're more comfortable lacking a belief instead.

Lacking a believe of what? What is the contrast of lacking a believe in purposefulness and not thinking there is a strong case for purposefulness?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-05-2016, 09:59 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(24-05-2016 09:45 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Purposeful causes don't necessarily negate natural causes.

Until you prove a purposeful cause, natural causes are all that we have.

(24-05-2016 09:45 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The question is whether or not the evidence of our physical universe support nihilism, purposelessness. The argument for which are not only far from compelling, very few, even among unbelievers seem to believe it is. They're more comfortable lacking a belief instead.

Unless you provide evidence, your unsubstantiated beliefs are no different than any other unsubstantiated belief.

A lacking of unsubstantiated beliefs is a good thing, as far as I can see.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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