Dumb Atheist Sayings
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15-05-2016, 09:31 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 09:05 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(14-05-2016 09:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is not about imagining the non-existence of gods, it is simply not having a belief in them. If one has never been introduced to the concept, one can't have the belief.
Atheism is the default.

That doesn't really apply if you lack the capacity for belief.

It's like pointing to a computer and saying, "This button makes it go and this button makes it stop. Stop is the default." Until that computer is plugged in neither button does anything and there is no default.

No, that doesn't even begin to make sense. Until someone teaches you deity concepts or you make them up to explain something you can't understand with limited knowledge or reason there is no god/deity concept. It's imagined by man therefore it doesn't exist until man learns it or imagines it and that is atheism.

Another thing I'd like to address is your statement:

Quote:Anybody who can't understand the basic concepts doesn't count. Their incapable of forming an opinion. It's as meaningful as including goats, ferns and rocks amongst our ranks and it makes us sound desperate enough that we had to recruit from the under 2 demographic. If it's still in diapers it doesn't count.

First, this is an asshole statement that anyone who does not agree with you is automatically null and void. Fuck that shit!

You don't have to agree with anyone, you don't have to argue the point but to automatically disqualify any dissenters beforehand is childish and is for all tense and purposes having a little verbal tantrum.

Now, back to the topic.

You're wrong. Every person born is atheist until they are taught differently or until they imagine an option not in evidence.

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15-05-2016, 09:35 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(14-05-2016 08:29 PM)Fireball Wrote:  It's funny that way. I have "faith" in science and engineering, in that I know how that shit works, and have seen what an airliner goes through before it is certified for flight worthiness.

I'm rarely as concerned in the engineering and science as I am in the management decisions that may have over-ruled them.

"No, go ahead with the launch. The O-rings will be fine."

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15-05-2016, 10:04 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 09:05 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  It's like pointing to a computer and saying, "This button makes it go and this button makes it stop. Stop is the default." Until that computer is plugged in neither button does anything and there is no default.

No, it's not. "Atheist" simply means "without god". Are babies anything else than that? Can they be anything else than that? No. And that is why atheism is the default. A baby cannot be anything else but an atheist.

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15-05-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
This really isn't the directionI was hoping this thread would take.

(15-05-2016 09:31 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Another thing I'd like to address is your statement:

Quote:Anybody who can't understand the basic concepts doesn't count. Their incapable of forming an opinion. It's as meaningful as including goats, ferns and rocks amongst our ranks and it makes us sound desperate enough that we had to recruit from the under 2 demographic. If it's still in diapers it doesn't count.

First, this is an asshole statement that anyone who does not agree with you is automatically null and void. Fuck that shit!

You don't have to agree with anyone, you don't have to argue the point but to automatically disqualify any dissenters beforehand is childish and is for all tense and purposes having a little verbal tantrum.

I don't quite understand what I've done to offend you but I'm sorry for whatever part I've had in it. Could you do me a favour and take a few calming breaths and a healthy cup of coffee before hitting reply?

I do my best not to make "asshole statements" and what you have quoted above does not demonstrate that anybody who disagrees with me is axiomatically wrong, nor does it exclude or disqulaify dissenters. I'm sorry if you have taken it that way.

I'm simply saying that a newborn has no more capacity for belief or disbelief than a goat or a fern or a rock. Consequently you cannot be born an atheist, at least not using the biological definition of birth.

It's as meanigful to state that everybody is born a communist since they obviously don't support a fee-market economy. In this instance both concepts are human constructs that the average newborn has as much capacity to grasp as a cabbage plant. The infant is patently neither communist nor capitalist. It is a blank slate that has yet to form the mind that would qualify it for a meaningful opinion.

The discussion of how your mind forms later on is another matter, and one that's more meaningful IMO.

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15-05-2016, 10:23 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 09:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I got a few:

Atheists who believe morality is subjective, and yet make appeals to the Problem of Evil, to suggest a logical contradiction.

Why is that a problem for you? It's addressing the concept of a Perfect Author of Morality on its own terms ... and still finding it coming up short.

Oohhhhhh, that's why it's a problem. Forget I asked. Smile
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15-05-2016, 10:25 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 10:06 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  This really isn't the directionI was hoping this thread would take.

(15-05-2016 09:31 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Another thing I'd like to address is your statement:


First, this is an asshole statement that anyone who does not agree with you is automatically null and void. Fuck that shit!

You don't have to agree with anyone, you don't have to argue the point but to automatically disqualify any dissenters beforehand is childish and is for all tense and purposes having a little verbal tantrum.

I don't quite understand what I've done to offend you but I'm sorry for whatever part I've had in it. Could you do me a favour and take a few calming breaths and a healthy cup of coffee before hitting reply?

I do my best not to make "asshole statements" and what you have quoted above does not demonstrate that anybody who disagrees with me is axiomatically wrong, nor does it exclude or disqulaify dissenters. I'm sorry if you have taken it that way.

I'm simply saying that a newborn has no more capacity for belief or disbelief than a goat or a fern or a rock. Consequently you cannot be born an atheist, at least not using the biological definition of birth.

It's as meaningful to state that everybody is born a communist since they obviously don't support a fee-market economy. In this instance both concepts are human constructs that the average newborn has as much capacity to grasp as a cabbage plant. The infant is patently neither communist nor capitalist. It is a blank slate that has yet to form the mind that would qualify it for a meaningful opinion.

The discussion of how your mind forms later on is another matter, and one that's more meaningful IMO.

Quote:I don't quite understand what I've done to offend you but I'm sorry for whatever part I've had in it. Could you do me a favour and take a few calming breaths and a healthy cup of coffee before hitting reply?

Ah, innocent denial and condescension so early in the morning.... delicious. Drinking Beverage

AND you removed my quote fo your statement that I referred to... intentionally or "accidently"?

Quote:I do my best not to make "asshole statements" and what you have quoted above does not demonstrate that anybody who disagrees with me is axiomatically wrong, nor does it exclude or disqualify dissenters.

Yes it does (this is the quote you removed):

Quote:Anybody who can't understand the basic concepts doesn't count. Their incapable of forming an opinion. It's as meaningful as including goats, ferns and rocks amongst our ranks and it makes us sound desperate enough that we had to recruit from the under 2 demographic. If it's still in diapers it doesn't count.

Clearly you did discount dissenter and nullify their opinions ahead of time. Maybe you should try your condescension with a side cream, instead of bullshit next time.

As for the rest of your assertions, still more non-relevant bullshit.

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15-05-2016, 10:26 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
This discussion are babies atheists is funny. It's obviously just a matter of how you define it. How much can you say about it? It's incredible the micro-points people think up. Wow.

I also remember hearing about religious people who worry about their baby might be in hell because it wasn't baptized and like Mormons baptizing the dead so they can move to heaven or some private planet or star or something. Reminds me of this, like wow, what a nutty thing to worry about!

I do think it's interesting to consider why some people NEVER believe. Like maybe there is a difference in brain chemistry like I linked to before. I remember being a little kid and seeing a children's bible with pictures. It had god's hand made out of clouds or something like that and I thought "but that doesn't really happen!" It seemed like Peter Rabbit or whatever. It makes me wonder why people don't just know intuitively that it's false. Even little kids should be able to see that when it's that obviously fictionalized.
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15-05-2016, 10:32 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 10:06 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  This really isn't the directionI was hoping this thread would take.

(15-05-2016 09:31 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Another thing I'd like to address is your statement:


First, this is an asshole statement that anyone who does not agree with you is automatically null and void. Fuck that shit!

You don't have to agree with anyone, you don't have to argue the point but to automatically disqualify any dissenters beforehand is childish and is for all tense and purposes having a little verbal tantrum.

I don't quite understand what I've done to offend you but I'm sorry for whatever part I've had in it. Could you do me a favour and take a few calming breaths and a healthy cup of coffee before hitting reply?

I do my best not to make "asshole statements" and what you have quoted above does not demonstrate that anybody who disagrees with me is axiomatically wrong, nor does it exclude or disqulaify dissenters. I'm sorry if you have taken it that way.

I'm simply saying that a newborn has no more capacity for belief or disbelief than a goat or a fern or a rock. Consequently you cannot be born an atheist, at least not using the biological definition of birth.

It's as meanigful to state that everybody is born a communist since they obviously don't support a fee-market economy. In this instance both concepts are human constructs that the average newborn has as much capacity to grasp as a cabbage plant. The infant is patently neither communist nor capitalist. It is a blank slate that has yet to form the mind that would qualify it for a meaningful opinion.

The discussion of how your mind forms later on is another matter, and one that's more meaningful IMO.

And now you're editing without notice (you put the quote back in I see). How disingenuous of you. I think I'm done with you.

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15-05-2016, 10:36 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 09:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I got a few:

Atheists who believe morality is subjective, and yet make appeals to the Problem of Evil, to suggest a logical contradiction.

Atheists who reject the idea of free will, yet suggest that we can choose to think rationally and logically.

The "I just believe in one less God than you".

The, "Who created God, question?"

The Problem of Evil argument is only a contradiction when one is positing an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator of an absolute morality. Without taking a stance on that question at all, I don't need to hold to a belief in absolute morality to point out there's a logical inconsistency with that larger idea. How is it a dumb saying when used against that particular conception of a god?

Computer chips have no free will (not unless they're badly broken) and yet can process information logically. Without me taking a stance on the free will issue either way, how is this a dumb thing to say?

"I just believe in one less God than you" is a way to help people deep into the religion to visualize what not believing in the Christian God is like, by comparing it to their own nonbelief in Zeus, Horus, etc. It's still got a lot of potential for expressing that idea. Used more freely, rather than for that specific purpose, it's pretty trite, but in that particular role it's powerful. How is it dumb when used for that specific purpose?

"Who created God" is a bit dumb in general conversation, but it has a specific role as a counterapologetic to various arguments that boil down to "something had to create everything, and that something was God". How is this a dumb saying in that specific usage?

....... also, come to think of it, there is no such thing as a dumb saying. If a person is saying something, they are by definition not dumb.
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15-05-2016, 10:44 AM
RE: Dumb Atheist Sayings
(15-05-2016 10:06 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  I'm simply saying that a newborn has no more capacity for belief or disbelief than a goat or a fern or a rock. Consequently you cannot be born an atheist, at least not using the biological definition of birth.

Being an atheist does not mean knowing gods and rejecting them. It means being without a god.

You are born an atheist (without a god) as you are born without a religion, without a favorite football team, without political stances etc. You don't need to be able to grasp the concept to be one. A baby cannot grasp the concept of "baby", yet is is a baby.

(15-05-2016 10:06 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  It's as meanigful to state that everybody is born a communist since they obviously don't support a fee-market economy. In this instance both concepts are human constructs that the average newborn has as much capacity to grasp as a cabbage plant. The infant is patently neither communist nor capitalist. It is a blank slate that has yet to form the mind that would qualify it for a meaningful opinion.

No. Communism, a free-market economy and religion are human constructs. Atheism is not. Atheism is not a position, it is a state.

Again, this argument is not about having babies on our side. It is about showing that religion is taught (even if there is a tendency for it in our genes) and believing in a god is not innate (as many theists tend to believe).

You can't possibly use this argument with Buddhists (they are mostly atheists since Buddhism does not have "gods") but you can perfectly use it with people who are religious and think that it is "natural" to believe in a god. That is the sole purpose of the argument.

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