Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
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11-12-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 01:57 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I thought the intent of the conversation was to explain why Christians don't believe the OT law applies, not to prove Christianity.

The two are inextricably linked; if people believe based on demonstrably unreliable evidence then they have no good justification for those beliefs. I fully understand that you can pick and choose verses to support just about any position you want. That's why there are so many different denominations and so many non-denominational "Christians". There's no standard and no agreement on what it means.

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11-12-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 02:01 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 01:54 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  That scripture is saying you cannot worship God and demons. The intent is not about clean and unclean food.

No, Paul was talking about what food was clean or safe to eat in the marketplace. Since most of the food was prepared by pagan shops, they sacrificed said meat to pagan gods. Christians were fearful of eating said meat since God doesn't like people who commit idolatry. This is what Paul is addressing here.
So the issue is about idolatry by supporting pagan worship. "Ironic considering the origin of Christmas"
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11-12-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 02:16 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 02:01 PM)jennybee Wrote:  No, Paul was talking about what food was clean or safe to eat in the marketplace. Since most of the food was prepared by pagan shops, they sacrificed said meat to pagan gods. Christians were fearful of eating said meat since God doesn't like people who commit idolatry. This is what Paul is addressing here.
So the issue is about idolatry by supporting pagan worship. "Ironic considering the origin of Christmas"

Paul contradicts himself left and right in the same passage. If you read further you could have found something to contradict my contradiction to you. Hobo Tongue Also a style of writing at the time, btw.
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11-12-2015, 02:24 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 02:14 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 01:57 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I thought the intent of the conversation was to explain why Christians don't believe the OT law applies, not to prove Christianity.

The two are inextricably linked; if people believe based on demonstrably unreliable evidence then they have no good justification for those beliefs. I fully understand that you can pick and choose verses to support just about any position you want. That's why there are so many different denominations and so many non-denominational "Christians". There's no standard and no agreement on what it means.
I agree with your point. It is true that people do tend to pick and choose what is important.
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11-12-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 02:24 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 02:14 PM)unfogged Wrote:  The two are inextricably linked; if people believe based on demonstrably unreliable evidence then they have no good justification for those beliefs. I fully understand that you can pick and choose verses to support just about any position you want. That's why there are so many different denominations and so many non-denominational "Christians". There's no standard and no agreement on what it means.
I agree with your point. It is true that people do tend to pick and choose what is important.

But then why wasn't God clear in his message? Why would God allow confusing contradictions? This was one of the things I struggled with as a Christian. If this magical, all powerful being wanted to communicate to us through his magical book--why not make it so abundantly clear what his true message was? Especially if he wanted us to behave a certain way because it upset him when we didn't.
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11-12-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
Back to my original point. I explained the reasons why Christians disregard the OT law. For the record it is not entirely what I believe but I think I have made my point across. If I haven't responded to someone's "gotcha" contradictions it is only because I think it is unnecessary to go down that rabbit hole lest I wrote a whole book trying to explain everything for every new person to join the thread.
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11-12-2015, 02:31 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 02:29 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Back to my original point. I explained the reasons why Christians disregard the OT law. For the record it is not entirely what I believe but I think I have made my point across. If I haven't responded to someone's "gotcha" contradictions it is only because I think it is unnecessary to go down that rabbit hole lest I wrote a whole book trying to explain everything for every new person to join the thread.

It's not a gotcha contradiction--it's a contradiction--and there are many. But you don't need to address them--I do think you may want to think about why they are in there though.
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11-12-2015, 02:36 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 01:57 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 01:54 PM)unfogged Wrote:  It's a pretty big stretch to assume that applies to anything more than the physical death that was happening. It also contradicts the "till heaven and earth pass" part.

It's also interesting that those aren't his last words according to the other gospels.

If you get to pick and choose what you believe and you get to assume things mean whatever you want them to then you can make anything make sense. Face it, it is a confused mess of contradictory claims which is just what you'd expect from hearsay accounts recorded years after the fact by people with an agenda to push.
It isn't what you'd expect from a divinely inspired record of god's most important message to his creation.
I thought the intent of the conversation was to explain why Christians don't believe the OT law applies, not to prove Christianity.

Everything is about disproving Christianity.

If Christians didn't believe that OT law applies. The Commandments wouldn't be brought up so much.





Or when they want an excuse why they don't like gay people.









The NT doesn't erase the OT. If it did it wouldn't be included in the "complete" text.

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11-12-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.


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11-12-2015, 02:41 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 02:29 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 02:24 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I agree with your point. It is true that people do tend to pick and choose what is important.

But then why wasn't God clear in his message? Why would God allow confusing contradictions? This was one of the things I struggled with as a Christian. If this magical, all powerful being wanted to communicate to us through his magical book--why not make it so abundantly clear what his true message was? Especially if he wanted us to behave a certain way because it upset him when we didn't.
Because the accusation that the bible is full of hearsay is not entirely false. Matthew and Luke were not at the crucifixion so where did they get their information? From hearing the testimony from others.

Imagine there was a murder where there were several suspects. If all the suspect's testimonials were not exactly the same does that mean the murder never happened? Does the minor inconsistencies of Jesus' last words mean the crucifixion never happened?

Now lets just say that in this murder scenario that all the suspect's testimonials was exactly the same. Investigators would be likely to believe that everyone got together to get their cover stories straight. I would go as far to say that even if all the gospels were exactly the same people would accuse the apostles of getting their stories straight or just flat out plagiarized each other.
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