Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
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11-12-2015, 02:49 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
I would also add that the entire gospel of Luke is technically entirely hearsay.
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11-12-2015, 02:50 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 02:41 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(11-12-2015 02:29 PM)jennybee Wrote:  But then why wasn't God clear in his message? Why would God allow confusing contradictions? This was one of the things I struggled with as a Christian. If this magical, all powerful being wanted to communicate to us through his magical book--why not make it so abundantly clear what his true message was? Especially if he wanted us to behave a certain way because it upset him when we didn't.
Because the accusation that the bible is full of hearsay is not entirely false. Matthew and Luke were not at the crucifixion so where did they get their information? From hearing the testimony from others.

Imagine there was a murder where there were several suspects. If all the suspect's testimonials were not exactly the same does that mean the murder never happened? Does the minor inconsistencies of Jesus' last words mean the crucifixion never happened?

Now lets just say that in this murder scenario that all the suspect's testimonials was exactly the same. Investigators would be likely to believe that everyone got together to get their cover stories straight. I would go as far to say that even if all the gospels were exactly the same people would accuse the apostles of getting their stories straight or just flat out plagiarized each other.

I would totally agree with you--if the Bible was not god-breathed/god-inspired. IMO, you can't get away with oh, well, it's just human error when a magical being is involved and he is trying to communicate to you solely through the written word. It also doesn't make sense that this same magical being who is so bent on the written word would ever allow the Tower of Babel incident to take place.
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11-12-2015, 02:53 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 02:41 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Because the accusation that the bible is full of hearsay is not entirely false. Matthew and Luke were not at the crucifixion so where did they get their information? From hearing the testimony from others.

Imagine there was a murder where there were several suspects. If all the suspect's testimonials were not exactly the same does that mean the murder never happened? Does the minor inconsistencies of Jesus' last words mean the crucifixion never happened?

Now lets just say that in this murder scenario that all the suspect's testimonials was exactly the same. Investigators would be likely to believe that everyone got together to get their cover stories straight. I would go as far to say that even if all the gospels were exactly the same people would accuse the apostles of getting their stories straight or just flat out plagiarized each other.

Apart from the fact that the stories are more than a little different, the best evidence is that they were recorded 30+ years after the supposed events (with some of Paul's writings being only 20 or so years later). That's more than enough time for them to have been exaggerated and otherwise mangled.

It is also true that while it may not prove that the core events did not happen, there's also no real reason to believe that any of the events did happen. The best anybody can say is that maybe there was an apocalyptic preacher who got himself in trouble with the authorities and that's not anything extraordinary.

Finally (for now anyway), we aren't talking about a fairly mundane murder investigation. This is supposedly god's plan to provide salvation for his creation. If unverifiable hearsay is the best he can come up with then there's a problem there.
Some differences might be expected but blatant contradictions and a complete lack of corroborating evidence would not be.

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11-12-2015, 09:05 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 01:42 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  ...
John 18:30 "....It is finished"

Frodo RotK "... it's gone; it's done"
Sam RotK "... it's over now"

We can all quote fiction.

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12-12-2015, 12:04 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2015 06:30 AM by EvolutionKills.)
Smile RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(11-12-2015 02:41 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Because the accusation that the bible is full of hearsay is not entirely false. Matthew and Luke were not at the crucifixion so where did they get their information? From hearing the testimony from others.

Imagine there was a murder where there were several suspects. If all the suspect's testimonials were not exactly the same does that mean the murder never happened? Does the minor inconsistencies of Jesus' last words mean the crucifixion never happened?

Now lets just say that in this murder scenario that all the suspect's testimonials was exactly the same. Investigators would be likely to believe that everyone got together to get their cover stories straight. I would go as far to say that even if all the gospels were exactly the same people would accuse the apostles of getting their stories straight or just flat out plagiarized each other.


Look at that, you're still under the impression that the Gospels were actually written by those apostles who have traditionally had their names attached to them.

ProTip: All of the Gospels were written anonymously.

Plus, one has to love the preposterously strained logic that has the believer trying to argue that the differences of the Gospels is evidence for their validity. The differences are not inconsequential, as the some of the Gospels have Jesus doing something one day, another Gospel says he did it another day, and another Gospel will claim he never did that thing. This isn't a case of multiple witnesses not agreeing on the color of Jesus' robes, this is Jesus being in different locations doing different things at the same time.

At the end of the day, assuming the supernatural is still the least probable explanation for the discrepancies of the Gospels. We don't need to invoke the supernatural to explain discrepancies in the Iliad, the Odyssey, Beowulf, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Trials of Heracles, or all other religious myths other than the one you personally profess belief in. There is no reason, no evidence, to believe that your myths are a special exception. The supernatural is not needed to explain any facet of Christianity.

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12-12-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
We can us refrense to even more modern story's to see how assumptions turn into legends.

Lets take the story of the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna. Better know as just Anastasia.

[Image: Anastasia-don-bluth.jpg]

[Image: 800px-Grand_Duchess_Anastasia_Nikolaevna...emoved.jpg]

For those that don't know Anastasia was a Russian Princess. During the Russian Revolution in 1917 her family and her were placed under house Arrest and moved to a house in Siberia. In October that year her family had be brutally executed by Anti-Bolshevik forces.

If you'd like the details this is translated from Russian.
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/Yu...glish.html

But so there after roomers start to spread. No one found the body of Anastasia. Had she exsaped? Only 3 years later a woman had came forward saying she was the lost princess. She confessed she had feigned death and a compassionate guard rescued her. Legal battles insude for most of her life trying to prove she was Anastasia. She died in 1984. She wasn't the only one however claiming to be the "resurrected" princess at least 10 others had come forward. All with personal stories and many going to their death beds claiming they were Anastasia.

History turned into Bleed in with rumors, rumors into legends. Several Films and musicals were made around these Legends and the true events that happened were un-known.

The truth was she was murdered. DNA tests on the bodys of the woman claiming to be Anastasia proved they where lieing. The bodys of the family had been found in 1991. But were kept secret for several years because Communism was still ruling Russia. In 1998 a computer program compared the skulls found with the photographs of the missing girls. Still test continued until 2007 when it was confirmed that the Body of Anastasia had been found.

It took no time for Con-artists to move in. Or for people to jump to conclusions or add make believe with true events. How much easier could it be for a time were written down story's to be a rarity. To get passed around as facts. The first manuscript copy of the complete bible was written in 1384. The oldest manuscript of the new testament, a tiny fragment of a papyrus is dated at around 125 AD. How easily or quickly can a "true" events turn into fabrications when all you have is the game of telephone.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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13-12-2015, 10:48 AM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
Just wanted to make a general announcement.

When I first came on this forum I asked why nobody goes to a christian forum to ask questions about Christianity. The overwhelming response was "we have but we just get kicked off". I have verified the statement as true because there was no specific subforum dedicated to apologetics where opposing views could be heard.

After some talk with the admin on "the Christian Forum" about the issue, there is a subforum now in place for you all to allow your voices and questions to be heard.

Login to "The Christian Forum " go to "prayers and outreach " then "outreach". There will be a subforum labeled "apologetics".

I hope this will be useful. Thank you.
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13-12-2015, 12:26 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(13-12-2015 10:48 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Just wanted to make a general announcement.

When I first came on this forum I asked why nobody goes to a christian forum to ask questions about Christianity. The overwhelming response was "we have but we just get kicked off". I have verified the statement as true because there was no specific subforum dedicated to apologetics where opposing views could be heard.

After some talk with the admin on "the Christian Forum" about the issue, there is a subforum now in place for you all to allow your voices and questions to be heard.

Login to "The Christian Forum " go to "prayers and outreach " then "outreach". There will be a subforum labeled "apologetics".

I hope this will be useful. Thank you.

But I have to make 100 posts and get 5 likes before I post there? What am I going to make 100 posts on in that Forum? “Hey, nice hat”.

"If you would like to participate in this forum, please make a post in this thread acknowledging that you have read the Statement of Purpose for the Christian Apologetics forum and agree to follow the guidelines, as well as the sitewide rules. You must have 100 posts and five likes to post in this forum.”

[Image: Ur7XVsP.gif?zoom=2]

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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13-12-2015, 12:28 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(13-12-2015 12:26 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(13-12-2015 10:48 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Just wanted to make a general announcement.

When I first came on this forum I asked why nobody goes to a christian forum to ask questions about Christianity. The overwhelming response was "we have but we just get kicked off". I have verified the statement as true because there was no specific subforum dedicated to apologetics where opposing views could be heard.

After some talk with the admin on "the Christian Forum" about the issue, there is a subforum now in place for you all to allow your voices and questions to be heard.

Login to "The Christian Forum " go to "prayers and outreach " then "outreach". There will be a subforum labeled "apologetics".

I hope this will be useful. Thank you.

But I have to make 100 posts and get 5 likes before I post there? What am I going to make 100 posts on in that Forum? “Hey, nice hat”.

"If you would like to participate in this forum, please make a post in this thread acknowledging that you have read the Statement of Purpose for the Christian Apologetics forum and agree to follow the guidelines, as well as the sitewide rules. You must have 100 posts and five likes to post in this forum.”

[Image: Ur7XVsP.gif?zoom=2]
That sucks. Well.... I hope you like false flattery.
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13-12-2015, 12:40 PM
RE: Dutch Pranksters Swap Bible Cover with Koran Cover.
(13-12-2015 12:28 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(13-12-2015 12:26 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  But I have to make 100 posts and get 5 likes before I post there? What am I going to make 100 posts on in that Forum? “Hey, nice hat”.

"If you would like to participate in this forum, please make a post in this thread acknowledging that you have read the Statement of Purpose for the Christian Apologetics forum and agree to follow the guidelines, as well as the sitewide rules. You must have 100 posts and five likes to post in this forum.”

[Image: Ur7XVsP.gif?zoom=2]
That sucks. Well.... I hope you like false flattery.

If we could make an underailable thread over there I could get to 100 posts easy Hobo
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