Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-12-2013, 01:19 AM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
As stated before, I don't believe these stickers will increase the cohesion between ethnic/religious groups.

Those arabs/muslims are there and you can't throw'em ALL out. Many of them have little in common with their country of origin and have settled their lives here. The solution lies in education and a strict enforcement of church and state. Get'em educated, get'em to think and don't make them believe they are special because they have a holy book by giving'em special rights. It won't be solved in 1-2-3, but then again, Enlightenment a marathon and we race against idiots who breed more.

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2013, 01:51 AM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
It's never the goal to throw them out.
If they can't get along in their country of origin and look for a country where they CAN get along: fine.
But actions like this are because those that choose to go there don't get along but instead become the pricks they ran away from.
Intergration and participation is the goal, but seems unreachable.

Aspiring optimist
Eternal Pragmatist.
With the uncanny ability to see all sides in every argument.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2013, 02:06 AM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
(24-12-2013 01:51 AM)Caveman Wrote:  It's never the goal to throw them out.
If they can't get along in their country of origin and look for a country where they CAN get along: fine.
But actions like this are because those that choose to go there don't get along but instead become the pricks they ran away from.
Intergration and participation is the goal, but seems unreachable.

The question is if people who feel like having roots in their current country would gladly go somewhere else if their beliefs are better enforced there. Wouldn't they rather try to makes changes here by proselityzing, political activism etc.
I don't like it, but that's a weakness of democracy: tolerance towards intolerance. And they know it...

It's a bit like the Israeli problem; they can't be a Jewish nation and a democracy at the same time. In Western countries being overrun and outbred, how can you remain a democracy if you keep supporting groups who want to overthrow it and impose other values incompatible with reason, democracy, peace and tolerance?

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2013, 09:06 AM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
(24-12-2013 02:06 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 01:51 AM)Caveman Wrote:  It's never the goal to throw them out.
If they can't get along in their country of origin and look for a country where they CAN get along: fine.
But actions like this are because those that choose to go there don't get along but instead become the pricks they ran away from.
Intergration and participation is the goal, but seems unreachable.

The question is if people who feel like having roots in their current country would gladly go somewhere else if their beliefs are better enforced there. Wouldn't they rather try to makes changes here by proselityzing, political activism etc.
I don't like it, but that's a weakness of democracy: tolerance towards intolerance. And they know it...

It's a bit like the Israeli problem; they can't be a Jewish nation and a democracy at the same time. In Western countries being overrun and outbred, how can you remain a democracy if you keep supporting groups who want to overthrow it and impose other values incompatible with reason, democracy, peace and tolerance?

Correct.
And if they take advantage of the system like that, then the opposite side is allowed to place stickers calling bullshit.

Aspiring optimist
Eternal Pragmatist.
With the uncanny ability to see all sides in every argument.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Caveman's post
24-12-2013, 09:21 AM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
I wonder what former Muslim Ayaan Hersi Ali would say about Islam? She had a documentary made about the treatment of women in Islam and her film maker friend was stabbed to death with a note stuck to the knife saying "You're next" meaning her.

I'd say if the people who call themselves Muslim don't want people to say shit like this maybe they need to challenge the violent fuckwads among them. I don't think it makes you a Nazi to point out violence in a holy book, any holy book.

As soon as any religious person of any religion gets violent over their god/s heros or prophets they lose any case they have for wanting acceptance.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Brian37's post
24-12-2013, 02:32 PM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
(24-12-2013 09:21 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  I wonder what former Muslim Ayaan Hersi Ali would say about Islam? She had a documentary made about the treatment of women in Islam and her film maker friend was stabbed to death with a note stuck to the knife saying "You're next" meaning her.

I'd say if the people who call themselves Muslim don't want people to say shit like this maybe they need to challenge the violent fuckwads among them. I don't think it makes you a Nazi to point out violence in a holy book, any holy book.

As soon as any religious person of any religion gets violent over their god/s heros or prophets they lose any case they have for wanting acceptance.

She's said A LOT about Islam.
For instance:







And this isn't even the most explicit stuff she said!

Aspiring optimist
Eternal Pragmatist.
With the uncanny ability to see all sides in every argument.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-12-2013, 04:50 PM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
I don't see anything wrong with the stickers - they're the sort of things I'd say about Christianity - but there's no point to them; they don't explain why something is wrong or bad, so they don't challenge people's beliefs or behaviours.

It's not really challenging Islam to say "The Quran is toxic". Why is it toxic? It's just a circlejerk for people who agree with the statement, and seen as baseless antagonism by those who disagree. How about something that shows why Islam is toxic? Quotes from the book, perhaps, bringing to light promotion of violence and sexism. You could fit that on a little sign and it might actually encourage someone to research or debate it.

I'm just not a fan of bumper-sticker politics.

If something can be destroyed by the truth, it might be worth destroying.

[Image: ZcC2kGl.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-12-2013, 07:02 PM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
(25-12-2013 04:50 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  I don't see anything wrong with the stickers - they're the sort of things I'd say about Christianity - but there's no point to them; they don't explain why something is wrong or bad, so they don't challenge people's beliefs or behaviours.

It's not really challenging Islam to say "The Quran is toxic". Why is it toxic? It's just a circlejerk for people who agree with the statement, and seen as baseless antagonism by those who disagree. How about something that shows why Islam is toxic? Quotes from the book, perhaps, bringing to light promotion of violence and sexism. You could fit that on a little sign and it might actually encourage someone to research or debate it.

I'm just not a fan of bumper-sticker politics.

It's true.
I was thinking it might make some people think that do not know unbelief is an option.
Then again, people like that are usually not taught to read.
Maybe we should hang up some TTA posters and stickers in The Hague.

Aspiring optimist
Eternal Pragmatist.
With the uncanny ability to see all sides in every argument.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-12-2013, 10:47 PM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
(20-12-2013 05:39 AM)sporehux Wrote:  that said , I would have no problem with a sticker quoting the parts of the Quran where Mohammad grooms a 6 year old and rapes her at age 9.
and this lovely quote;

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).

That's not from the Quran, it is from a hadith collection, specifically from Kutub al-Sittah.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-12-2013, 11:06 PM
RE: Dutch politician puts sticker on his door challenging Islam
(20-12-2013 05:08 AM)Caveman Wrote:  Dutch politician Geert Wilders has published a line of stickers.
These stickers resemble the flag of Saudi Arabia (green field with arab text), but the text on them is changed.
The original is:

ا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله ومُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله
lā ʾilāha ʾillā l-Lāh wa Muḥammadun rasūlu l-Lāh
"There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God
(wikipedia)
While Wilders' sticker reads:

Islam is a lie.
Muhamed was a criminal.
The Kuran is toxic.

Politically correct Holland has condemned the stickers: Calling it as bad as Nazi germany.

Your thoughts please.

That is fine. The purpose of a right to free speech is to protect unpopular speech. If everyone agreed with everyone then there would no need for such a right.

But if you are going to take freedom of speech seriously then religious people should also be free to publically condemn homosexuality, Darwin etc.

Also each of the particpants in the argument should be free to call each other Nazis, Hitler and so on. I would very much like to see a recursive Nazi argument: the supporters of the stickers should respond that it is as bad as Nazi Germany to claim that stickers against Islam are as bad as Nazi Germany...
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: