Dyson swarm?
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15-10-2015, 08:35 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
(15-10-2015 08:28 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 07:41 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  As far as the discovery goes, I'm hoping for a Nivenesque "Ringworld" being constructed.

My greatest fear with discovering some super advanced species that can build a Dyson Swarm or a Ringworld would be along the lines of why haven't they contacted us. I get the "prime directive" (non-interference for you non star trek nerds) theories, the "we are too insignificant" theories, etc. But the one that REALLY scares me is that they are advanced enough to build these things, and have found that FTL travel simply isn't possible by any trick of physics and so haven't sent out explorers/colony ships.

This simple fact would mean that all species on all planets around all star systems are doomed to exist only while their star is in it's main stage and then vanish without a trace. In isolation from every other intelligent species.

That to me, is terrifying.

One does not need to have FTL technology to not be doomed. Some kind of stasis and near light speed would be enough methinks.

It would aslo also require a ship that would last for millennia without major issue with no hope of repair or re-supply or rescue. A nearly limitless power source to keep everyone in stasis and the ships systems functioning. And about a hundred other engineering problems we haven't even thought of yet.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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15-10-2015, 08:38 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
(15-10-2015 08:33 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 08:28 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  If we truly are stuck on this rock until the sun expands and erases all traces of humanity from the galaxy, then it truly is all ultimately pointless.

Hug

You need some Gwynnies. Heart

I need something.

Jesus, I'm sorry, everyone. I really really should be jumping for joy at the mere slight possibility of an advanced race so "close" to earth.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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15-10-2015, 08:39 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
(15-10-2015 08:17 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Yeah, but my fear is based on it being ultimately futile. Technically, with today's technology, it would be possible to send a craft to another star system. It would just take a extreme amount of time.

I'm afraid that even with relativistic speeds it would take so long to get anywhere that aside from some explorers just to say "we did this", we wouldn't ever actually leave the solar system as a species. We know there are planets around other stars, and we're actually starting to find "earth like" planets, but that is kind of a misnomer. They are earth-like only in vague ways. Rocky, atmosphere, possibly liquid water, small (in comparison to the gas giants. But even the most earth like planet that we know about is much more massive than Earth. Gravity there would suck for our species even if the atmosphere were breathable. Atmosphere being present is also not the same as atmosphere being livable. We evolved to breathe a very specific mixture of gasses and if the host planet doesn't have the same mix, we'd need habitats permanently. Not a great solution for extra-solar colonization. There are too many variables to list them all out.

I guess my fear isn't that we wouldn't be capable, just that we'd get to a certain level of technology where we would know that the closest actually habitable planet is so far away, it still wouldn't be worth trying to send people.

Don't forget about time dilation too!
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15-10-2015, 08:42 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
(15-10-2015 08:38 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 08:33 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Hug

You need some Gwynnies. Heart

I need something.

Jesus, I'm sorry, everyone. I really really should be jumping for joy at the mere slight possibility of an advanced race so "close" to earth.

Nothing to be sorry about. Your attempts to dim my enthusiasm are futile. And I have a head full of Gwynnies. Big Grin

Besides, they're probably on their way to spread the gospel of SpaceJesus even as we type. Angel

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15-10-2015, 08:48 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
(15-10-2015 08:42 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 08:38 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  I need something.

Jesus, I'm sorry, everyone. I really really should be jumping for joy at the mere slight possibility of an advanced race so "close" to earth.

Nothing to be sorry about. Your attempts to dim my enthusiasm are futile. And I have a head full of Gwynnies. Big Grin

Besides, they're probably on their way to spread the gospel of SpaceJesus even as we type. Angel

Now THAT is terrifying. A race of super advanced aliens that send out missionaries to primitive planets. *shudders*

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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15-10-2015, 08:52 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
(15-10-2015 08:35 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 08:28 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  One does not need to have FTL technology to not be doomed. Some kind of stasis and near light speed would be enough methinks.

It would aslo also require a ship that would last for millennia without major issue with no hope of repair or re-supply or rescue. A nearly limitless power source to keep everyone in stasis and the ships systems functioning. And about a hundred other engineering problems we haven't even thought of yet.

Well I'm clearly no engineer, but to keep the systems running and the stasis to, the whole hull could be made of some kind of solar panel . For propulsion to alter the trajectory, I have no idea ,unless the same thing that makes solar sails work can work in reverse(massive laser pushes ship in opposite direction of laser) and to make the ship last, well, if they're advanced enough to have near light speed and Dyson spheres, they should be advanced enough to have materials that can last millennia in space. All I'm saying is that unable to achieve FTL speeds does not equal being doomed.

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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15-10-2015, 09:13 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
(15-10-2015 08:52 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  Well I'm clearly no engineer, but to keep the systems running and the stasis to, the whole hull could be made of some kind of solar panel . For propulsion to alter the trajectory, I have no idea ,unless the same thing that makes solar sails work can work in reverse(massive laser pushes ship in opposite direction of laser) and to make the ship last, well, if they're advanced enough to have near light speed and Dyson spheres, they should be advanced enough to have materials that can last millennia in space. All I'm saying is that unable to achieve FTL speeds does not equal being doomed.

Ah.. I think the point is the wearing out of parts inside the sip. Hence, most Sci-Fi writers who've written such stories put the vessel at the size of a 'small' hollowed out asteroid. Or even said ship latching onto said asteroid and mining said recourse (And expanding living conditions into) said thing.

Also, you could 'throw' any waste our the back to increase speed, kind of.

Though, changing course at high fractions of 'C'.... doesn't seem really viable. You know where you start... You know where your target star/system is going to be. Accelerate up to your fastest speed, then 'flip' half way there to slow down.

Or, if your telescopes give you better resolution as you get closer, tweak your approach to aim at said system's planets to use said bodies gravity wells to slow down (At least a little) to save on some reaction mass.

What one uses for fuel (For power, not reaction mass) might get a bit tricky since over really long time scales even nuclear fuel rods will simply decay naturally from being fuel to being lead. Using a 'Mr Fusion'... means you have to keep 'burning' Hydrogen etc.... Hence why for a long time 'Bussard Ramjets" were a Sci-Fi thing.

Scoop up the interstellar medium and burn that. No need for carrying the helium fuel.

Of course... now you need the material science to make a magnetic scoop hundreds (Thousands?) of kilometers/miles across... Tongue

Hence the idea of 'saving' on some of the reaction mass by having the parent star being harnessed and 'pushing' the seeder craft away from said body using MASSIVE lasers type energy things. The' Valkyrie starship' in Avatar is pushed away from Earth using ginourmous laser arrays. Only using its own, on board fuel to slow down when coming into the Avatar system.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/ro...rlight.php

Big Grin
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15-10-2015, 09:21 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
Nanotech + genetic engineering = shit don't wear out as long as there's energy. Way I've been figuring such potentials, anyway. Though we should be off this fucking rock and on to the next one to get these balls rolling. Undecided

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15-10-2015, 10:08 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
Speculating about what type of technology they would use for interstellar travel might be akin to apes speculating how many fire-breathing chimps it would take to power a jet airliner.

One of the solutions to Fermi's paradox could be that the universe is just so old that these civilizations come and go for a myriad of reasons that would be almost impossible to fathom until we could send sophisticated probes or human expeditions to these places to find out why they went extinct.

I think the likelihood of finding extinct civilizations would be greater than finding one that is currently viable at the same time we are in our technological phase.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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15-10-2015, 10:12 AM
RE: Dyson swarm?
This ape's happy speculating. Better than TV, anyway. Big Grin

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