EPA to officially challenge climate change?
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04-07-2017, 09:22 PM
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
(04-07-2017 06:29 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(04-07-2017 06:17 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It won't be too long before the flooded streets in Miami from the rising ocean level will hit our Dear Leader.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...77596.html

Yeah Trump is a narcissistic buffoon...

But really, this shit has been in the works since the first Neanderthal figured out you could bang some rocks together and make a fire......

Blaming the bozo-in-charge might feel good, but it's giving him way more credit than he's due, for being an influence on things...

I didn't say I was "blaming" anyone.
When he sees the streets in front of his own house flooding, he may wake up to reality.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-07-2017, 09:23 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2017 09:29 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
(04-07-2017 05:21 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  Is there any reasonable person that denies that throughout its history the climate of our planet has changed and is capable of changing again?

I have read in several articles that if the Paris Accords were followed to the letter by all, that the difference in temperature would only be in 0.03 degrees after many years of significant alteration of modern civilization's use of fuels.

I want there to be disagreement on how all this is handled. Not that long ago we were supposedly headed for a new ice age. There is no broad agreement on our planet's climate and what it means currently.

I do not reason that human activity is the culprit for whatever change is occurring, nor do I reason that altering human activity will return the climate to what is was, whenever it was supposedly perfect. This does not mean that I reason that pollution of our resources should not be curtailed, but that our activity has little to do with actual climate change.

I reason that the planet and our sun are doing what is normal and natural and humans will have to adapt.

Nor am I alone in this reasoning. It is just that it is currently the unpopular idea and is shouted down by those who must not let their plan for global change fail.

It's not a matter of shouting down anyone with different opinions, it's a matter of correcting them about what the science really tells us.

The climate has changed over hundreds of thousands and millions of years, yes, but it hasn't changed much for all of recorded human history. We've been stuck with recurrent ice ages for the last 2.5 million years, and were due for the very slow beginning of another within the next 1000 to 1500 years before we changed the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere. The typical glacial-interglacial cycle takes about 100,000 years, though interglacials are only about 10,000 or so.

The fractional changes in global average temperature which the Paris Accord was trying to achieve are significant when you consider that only 5 degrees Celsius plus or minus 1 degree Celsius is the difference between pre-industrial times and the last ice age, when a mile of ice covered much of North America and Europe. The Paris Accord was to try to keep total global average temperature increase below 2 degrees Celsius above the pre-industrial, since at a certain point above that, positive feedback from melting ice changing the planet's albedo and melting permafrost releasing more CO2 and methane may push temperatures uncontrollably higher.

There is broad agreement among climate scientists about anthropogenic climate change. 97% agreement. See below:

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Changing human activity will not return the planet to what it was for hundreds if not thousands of years, but it can stop it from getting worse. C02 levels in the atmosphere both drive manmade climate change and amplify natural climate change.

The Sun has nothing to do with present climate change. The natural cycle with changes in the Earth's orbit around the Sun are accounted for in the 100,000 year ice age cycle. The sunspot cycle is 11 years and accounts for only very small changes in temperatures in the stratosphere. It is a cycle and not a trend. And according to satellite measurements which began in 1979, the Sun has not changed in its output during this whole period when the temperatures have gone up. Only CO2 levels from burning fossil fuels and deforestation can account for most of the present climate change.

The above is what the science actually tells us. I have read 15 books on the subject so far, and am taking notes as I go.
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04-07-2017, 09:26 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2017 09:39 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
Also, I don't think your "0.03 degrees" figure was correct. We have already increased the global average temperature 1 degree Celsius above the pre-industrial, and have almost put enough CO2 in the atmosphere to assure a 1.5 degree Celsius increase (because of the several decade lag time). That means we only have a few more years to peak our CO2 emissions to remain below the 2 degrees Celsius, the Paris Accord target.
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04-07-2017, 09:32 PM
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
(04-07-2017 09:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-07-2017 06:29 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Yeah Trump is a narcissistic buffoon...

But really, this shit has been in the works since the first Neanderthal figured out you could bang some rocks together and make a fire......

Blaming the bozo-in-charge might feel good, but it's giving him way more credit than he's due, for being an influence on things...

I didn't say I was "blaming" anyone.
When he sees the streets in front of his own house flooding, he may wake up to reality.

Again, you're giving the oddly coifed one too much credit......

You're expecting that he can put two and two together and get four.......


If he had water flooding his house, I expect he'd think it was an indoor pool,.......

.......

He's just not that sharp..,..

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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04-07-2017, 09:37 PM
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
Trump appointed the former Attorney General of Oklahoma to be the head of the EPA. He's a lawyer, not a scientist. He doesn't believe in climate change. He sued the EPA 20-some times. So yeah, I can blame Trump. When the sea rises and Trump's rich friends start bitching that Palm Beach and Miami are flooding, he is bright enough to get that something is happening.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-07-2017, 09:37 PM
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
(04-07-2017 06:58 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(04-07-2017 06:29 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Yeah Trump is a narcissistic buffoon...

But really, this shit has been in the works since the first Neanderthal figured out you could bang some rocks together and make a fire......

Blaming the bozo-in-charge might feel good, but it's giving him way more credit than he's due, for being an influence on things...

But no one is blaming Trump for climate change. The issue is the continued acceptance of bullshit that leads to the overwhelming acceptance of the lies from the ones that influence our societal woes, because they benefit.

You and I know better. We all seem to know better, why aren't we acting like it?

That's a serious question. I'll put down my gun if you put yours down and let's figure this out.


If you jump off a 30 story building, everthing is fine as you pass the 10th story,.....

Even if you know there's a problem ahead, it's not likely to change the upcoming outcome.........

The insistence that all problems have a solution is quite like that..

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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04-07-2017, 09:46 PM
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
(04-07-2017 09:37 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If you jump off a 30 story building, everthing is fine as you pass the 10th story,.....

Even if you know there's a problem ahead, it's not likely to change the upcoming outcome.........

The insistence that all problems have a solution is quite like that..

We can't undo the damage already done, but we can still prevent worse damage. Climate change is a very difficult, very complex, slow-moving problem with built-in delays between causes and effects, so it will be a real challenge for humanity. But there are also plenty of things we can do to slow it down. It's irresponsible not to even try.
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04-07-2017, 09:47 PM
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
(04-07-2017 09:37 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(04-07-2017 06:58 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  But no one is blaming Trump for climate change. The issue is the continued acceptance of bullshit that leads to the overwhelming acceptance of the lies from the ones that influence our societal woes, because they benefit.

You and I know better. We all seem to know better, why aren't we acting like it?

That's a serious question. I'll put down my gun if you put yours down and let's figure this out.


If you jump off a 30 story building, everthing is fine as you pass the 10th story,.....

Even if you know there's a problem ahead, it's not likely to change the upcoming outcome.........

The insistence that all problems have a solution is quite like that..

I'll agree. See you in hell my friend. Drinking Beverage

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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05-07-2017, 12:33 AM
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
It's not like alternative technologies don't exist or can't be created with a bit of research. To continue doing nothing seems extremely reckless. There's research indicating that it *is* possible to mitigate the worst effects of climate change, so let's *do* it.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-07-2017, 04:32 AM
RE: EPA to officially challenge climate change?
(04-07-2017 09:46 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(04-07-2017 09:37 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If you jump off a 30 story building, everthing is fine as you pass the 10th story,.....

Even if you know there's a problem ahead, it's not likely to change the upcoming outcome.........

The insistence that all problems have a solution is quite like that..

We can't undo the damage already done, but we can still prevent worse damage. Climate change is a very difficult, very complex, slow-moving problem with built-in delays between causes and effects, so it will be a real challenge for humanity. But there are also plenty of things we can do to slow it down. It's irresponsible not to even try.

It's also evidence, on some level, that we can't even terraform earth itself.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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