Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
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09-12-2011, 02:37 PM
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
(09-12-2011 02:29 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:27 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Please explain.

To a guy who calls Georg Cantor a numerologist and me a flake? Will that be an explanation? Wink

I'll go see if I can find some links right now. Wink
I mean, there's more math, but this link just jumped out at me. Wink

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/l...-life.html


I didn't call you a flake. And IIRC Wikepedia refered to him as numerologist, or number theorist.

From the link you posted

Quote:Waterless life
Could life as we don't know it have gotten a start without water? Some planetary scientists have suggested that on certain very cold planetary bodies liquid ammonia might serve in place of water to incubate life. But even though it's the most common non-aqueous solvent, liquid ammonia would seem to have several other things going against it as a medium for life. Its liquid range is small, only about 30 degrees. Also, when it freezes, it sinks, and we know what that would do.

Some have suggested that oceans of methane or other hydrocarbons on places like Saturn's moon Titan could also serve the purpose. But, again, we're talking temperatures so low that chemical reactions as we know them could only proceed at a glacial pace. "At minus 150 degrees," says Bada, "most of the reactions that we think about in terms of being important in the origin of life probably wouldn't take place over the entire age of the solar system." Moreover, compounds like amino acids and DNA would not be soluble in these other liquids. "They would just be globs of gunk," Bada says.

So as we know, carbon based life probably can't exist without liquid water. What about all the other elements? Perhaps you didn't read my post well enough.
Quote:There could be life somewhere that lives off liquid ammonia or nitrogen.

I forgot to include methane.


(09-12-2011 02:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:27 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:20 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:19 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:01 PM)KnuckleTurtle Wrote:  Yes, they can't take photos of it because they discovered it from the amount of light it blocks from the star. They have no idea what it looks like except it could be roughly earth-sized and that it's in the "Goldilocks Zone," the area where it's not too hot for water to evaporate and not to cool for it to freeze. That is assuming that there is water there or that water is even needed for life at all. Hope this helps Smile

This. Why are we hung up on the idea that water is necessary for life? There could be life somewhere that lives off liquid ammonia or nitrogen.

There's math involved. Wink


Please explain.

Because math is always involved. Cool

Please don't feed HoC. Obviously everything can be expressed through math. Did you even read the post I made that he replied that to?

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09-12-2011, 02:39 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2011 02:43 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
I didn't take it personally, and there was more links I added. Wink
(09-12-2011 02:37 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Please don't feed HoC. Obviously everything can be expressed through math. Did you even read the post I made that he replied that to?

And this kind of comment makes me think you already have your mind made up. Feel free to put me on your ignore list if that is a problem. Wink

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09-12-2011, 02:43 PM
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
(09-12-2011 02:19 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:01 PM)KnuckleTurtle Wrote:  Yes, they can't take photos of it because they discovered it from the amount of light it blocks from the star. They have no idea what it looks like except it could be roughly earth-sized and that it's in the "Goldilocks Zone," the area where it's not too hot for water to evaporate and not to cool for it to freeze. That is assuming that there is water there or that water is even needed for life at all. Hope this helps Smile

This. Why are we hung up on the idea that water is necessary for life? There could be life somewhere that lives off liquid ammonia or nitrogen.

Something else to think about:

This only applies to carbon-based life.

What about silicon-based? Liquids could be a complete non-factor.

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09-12-2011, 02:48 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2011 02:51 PM by germanyt.)
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
(09-12-2011 02:39 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I didn't take it personally, and there was more links I added. Wink
(09-12-2011 02:37 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Please don't feed HoC. Obviously everything can be expressed through math. Did you even read the post I made that he replied that to?

And this kind of comment makes me think you already have your mind made up. Feel free to put me on your ignore list if that is a problem. Wink

I wasn't sure if he was being a smart-ass or serious. Anyway, the last 2 links you posted don't seem to reference life as it relates to carbon and liquid water. The 2nd one looked like it was going to but it doesn't really argue for water only life or against other liquid element life.

(09-12-2011 02:43 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:19 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:01 PM)KnuckleTurtle Wrote:  Yes, they can't take photos of it because they discovered it from the amount of light it blocks from the star. They have no idea what it looks like except it could be roughly earth-sized and that it's in the "Goldilocks Zone," the area where it's not too hot for water to evaporate and not to cool for it to freeze. That is assuming that there is water there or that water is even needed for life at all. Hope this helps Smile

This. Why are we hung up on the idea that water is necessary for life? There could be life somewhere that lives off liquid ammonia or nitrogen.

Something else to think about:

This only applies to carbon-based life.

What about silicon-based? Liquids could be a complete non-factor.

This. Life forms made up of natural elements we've never even observed before could be possible. In the universe there are trillions upon trillions of possibilities for life and I for one will not allow the vast array of potential life throughout the universe to be limited by what we think we know of carbon based life.

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09-12-2011, 02:54 PM
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
It does get down to math and geometry, and there is a "carbon-based" factor. But I'm going off of memory, it might take me days to find the links.

You peeps interested in that kinda thing? I don't wanna do a bunch of searching to hear, that's just HoC being all delusional about his Gwynnies. Wink

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09-12-2011, 02:57 PM
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
(09-12-2011 02:54 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It does get down to math and geometry, and there is a "carbon-based" factor. But I'm going off of memory, it might take me days to find the links.

You peeps interested in that kinda thing? I don't wanna do a bunch of searching to hear, that's just HoC being all delusional about his Gwynnies. Wink

Honestly, I'll probably become bored and lose atten

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09-12-2011, 02:59 PM
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
(09-12-2011 02:54 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It does get down to math and geometry, and there is a "carbon-based" factor. But I'm going off of memory, it might take me days to find the links.

You peeps interested in that kinda thing? I don't wanna do a bunch of searching to hear, that's just HoC being all delusional about his Gwynnies. Wink

Yeah, no need. Unless it's indisputable I'll probably still contend that with all the possibilites for life in the universe there is no way we could know for sure.

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09-12-2011, 02:59 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2011 03:00 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
(09-12-2011 02:43 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Something else to think about:

This only applies to carbon-based life.

What about silicon-based? Liquids could be a complete non-factor.

It's a limit to the "blue-sky" effect. How can we search for life as electrostactic potential? We cannot, at this time. Science goes by the numbers. We're carbon based, all life we know is carbon based from the six I posted in another thread --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHON --- we are only starting to search for life. Wink
(09-12-2011 02:59 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:54 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It does get down to math and geometry, and there is a "carbon-based" factor. But I'm going off of memory, it might take me days to find the links.

You peeps interested in that kinda thing? I don't wanna do a bunch of searching to hear, that's just HoC being all delusional about his Gwynnies. Wink

Yeah, no need. Unless it's indisputable I'll probably still contend that with all the possibilites for life in the universe there is no way we could know for sure.

Kinda figured. Mathematics does bring the eye-glaze with the quickness. Wink

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09-12-2011, 03:03 PM
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
(09-12-2011 02:59 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:43 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Something else to think about:

This only applies to carbon-based life.

What about silicon-based? Liquids could be a complete non-factor.

It's a limit to the "blue-sky" effect. How can we search for life as electrostactic potential? We cannot, at this time. Science goes by the numbers. We're carbon based, all life we know is carbon based from the six I posted in another thread --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHON --- we are only starting to search for life. Wink
(09-12-2011 02:59 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(09-12-2011 02:54 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It does get down to math and geometry, and there is a "carbon-based" factor. But I'm going off of memory, it might take me days to find the links.

You peeps interested in that kinda thing? I don't wanna do a bunch of searching to hear, that's just HoC being all delusional about his Gwynnies. Wink

Yeah, no need. Unless it's indisputable I'll probably still contend that with all the possibilites for life in the universe there is no way we could know for sure.

Kinda figured. Mathematics does bring the eye-glaze with the quickness. Wink

Isn't it possible that the elements that make up life on Earth do so becasue of the properties of our atmosphere and hat we have liquid water? We exists the way we do because of it and not so much that we can't exist in other fashion without it?

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09-12-2011, 03:15 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2011 03:19 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Earth-like planet discovered in 'habitable' zone
(09-12-2011 03:03 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Isn't it possible that the elements that make up life on Earth do so becasue of the properties of our atmosphere and hat we have liquid water? We exists the way we do because of it and not so much that we can't exist in other fashion without it?

But the problem with "possible" is there being only one Earth. We can't go kick it with the Martians and compare notes because there are no Martians, and amino acid derivatives found in space bring so much controversy that one must wonder just what was found. Assuming no duplicity on the part of the scientists, said discoveries reinforce the carbon-based model.

Here's a link: http://www.space.com/10498-life-building...orite.html

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