East Wind from China
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16-04-2017, 01:02 PM
East Wind from China
(16-04-2017 12:53 PM)ImFred Wrote:  How long do you think mankind can carry on before we have a nuclear holocaust?

If your answer isn't forever how do you propose we deal with this situation?


I would like to see missile defense systems that are so advanced that they will nullify any type of attack. This would make the the threat of nuclear missile attack obsolete.

Hopefully humanity will grow beyond war one day but realistically none of us will see that happen.
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16-04-2017, 01:06 PM
RE: East Wind from China
(16-04-2017 12:53 PM)ImFred Wrote:  If your answer isn't forever how do you propose we deal with this situation?

The only thing we can do is not to elect madmen or idiots. The US failed in that department as well as several European nations or the Pillipines for that matter.

Oh, I'm pretty sure, short of some unifying event as the appearance of an alien race, we will self destruct sooner of later. Cynical, but I don't believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki won't be forgotten in another decade or two. The last survivors are dying and there's noone left to tell the tale. Same as with borderline fascists being on the rise again. People forget and tend to fall for the same pied pipers they fell for some 80 years ago.

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16-04-2017, 07:15 PM
RE: East Wind from China
(16-04-2017 12:53 PM)ImFred Wrote:  How long do you think mankind can carry on before we have a nuclear holocaust?

If your answer isn't forever how do you propose we deal with this situation?

I don't have an answer. Many species have gone extinct through their own actions (overpredation, for instance) and I don't see any reason to assume we're any different.

Having said that, I sure don't think unilateral disarmament would foreclose on that possibility.

If you guys are looking to me for answers, we're all fucked -- of that much I am sure.
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16-04-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: East Wind from China
Since everyone pretty much agrees we're fucked as it's going why not gamble on a radical approach in another direction?

...and the less WMDs the world has the less likely we are to fuck ourselves with them so let's so some real leadership and start by dismantling ours (if you're American)

If we're so fucked what do really have to lose? And think of what we have to gain. If you want peace you have to have courage.
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16-04-2017, 07:44 PM
East Wind from China
There's a difference between having courage and just being plain stupid.

Why don't you lobby the other side to disarm? Go over there in person and talk to Putin. That would take some courage.
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17-04-2017, 02:37 AM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2017 02:53 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: East Wind from China
(16-04-2017 07:25 PM)ImFred Wrote:  If we're so fucked what do really have to lose?

What will unilateral disarmament resolve?
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17-04-2017, 03:03 AM
RE: East Wind from China
If America disarms and others don't, all that means is that America loses its negotiating power.

By analogy, if I'm the one person with a gun, everyone in the group must do as I say - otherwise I'll simply shoot someone to make an example and the rest will fall into line. If everyone has guns then sure, there's a risk that if someone starts shooting lots *more* death and destruction will occur, but at least there's far less incentive for any one person to start shooting - there's a mutually assured bad ending for everyone. And yes, that is a very dangerous situation but extricating the entire group from that position is not as simple as the biggest bully laying down their weapons and walking away.

That's the situation at present. Yes, it's a good idea to think about nuclear disarmament but no, it cannot be unilateral. *Everyone* must disarm at the same time if it is to have a chance of working. And I think that that will not happen. The genie is out of the bottle. Everyone, even shitty states like North Korea and Iran, knows that the keys to ultimate power are just a research programme and a refinement facility. That reality cannot be changed. So no one who already has nukes will voluntarily let them go.

My belief is, if good governance is something that everyone eventually implements, then sooner or later we will have a world state. Once that is a reality, then one can consider disarmament. But before that far future time, it's just not practical.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-04-2017, 03:06 AM
RE: East Wind from China
(16-04-2017 07:44 PM)KUSA Wrote:  Why don't you lobby the other side to disarm? Go over there in person and talk to Putin. That would take some courage.

Putin is not really the problem. He's a cold and calculating fish, who certainly won't fire the first nuclear shot. It's the hotheads and future hotheads that give me headaches. Nukes will continue to spread, since the genie is out of the bottle.

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