Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
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01-04-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
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01-04-2014, 02:25 PM
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
(01-04-2014 09:39 AM)proplayer44 Wrote:  We sin, so he died so our sins are forgiven.
Why die specifically.
What part of the death or dying means our sins are now ok.
I just don't get the tit for tat part. Why does one(sin) have any relevence to the other(death of jesus). Why does it make it all better?
I get how you break the law and you go to prison for 2 years and now you are free, no more punishment
Why death of jesus though?
Why not do other things instead to forgive our sins? Make the sun brighter.
Make it rain all spring?
Make it cold during winter?
Make the grass grow?
What part of Jesus dying makes sense?
Why not just simply forgive our sins because god wants to?

In the Abrahamic Covenant, there needed to be a blood sacrifice in order to have forgiveness of sins. In Abrahamic religions, sin causes death; therefore, if something else dies for you then they take your place - albeit for a time.

Jesus was considered "perfect" because he never sinned. So, His blood sacrifice lasts forever because His body was never tainted with sin.

Quote:And he came back to life, why did he need to come back to life? He still supposed to be alive right, or did he die a second time. Is he in heaven now? Why no talk of his second death? Why not just go to heaven the first time, why come back to life at all, just stay dead?

1) His physical body died and He came back in His glorified body (which is what is permitted in heaven.
2) Yes, He is still alive. See above.
3) Yes, He's seated at the right hand of God.
4) There was no second death.
5) See 1.

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01-04-2014, 02:44 PM (This post was last modified: 01-04-2014 02:49 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
(01-04-2014 02:25 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...Jesus was considered "perfect" because he never sinned. So, His blood sacrifice lasts forever because His body was never tainted with sin.
...

Consider
So...hypothetically speaking...if there was once a "perfect" goat that lived, and never sinned, then that "perfect" sinnless goat's blood sacrifice could have lasted forever too, because it's just about a body never tainted with sin?

Because it's not really about "Jesus" per se, but about a "perfect" sinless body. Which could in theory be any "perfect" sinless body, as long as you have one lying around to kill.

...
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01-04-2014, 02:55 PM
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
(01-04-2014 02:44 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 02:25 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...Jesus was considered "perfect" because he never sinned. So, His blood sacrifice lasts forever because His body was never tainted with sin.
...

Consider
So...hypothetically speaking...if there was once a "perfect" goat that lived, and never sinned, then that "perfect" sinnless goat's blood sacrifice could have lasted forever too, because it's just about a body never tainted with sin?

Because it's not really about "Jesus" per se, but about a "perfect" sinnless body. Which could in theory be any "perfect" sinnless body, as long as you have one lying around to kill.

Well no. Everything of this world is affected by sin... including all of nature. So, the only way to have something that isn't affected by sin, it has to come from somewhere where there was no sin (heaven/Jesus/God).

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01-04-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
First Easter is pagan.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...-symbolism

Ask king about the jesus story

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01-04-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
(01-04-2014 02:58 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  First Easter is pagan.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...-symbolism

Ask king about the jesus story

Yes. And so is Christmas.

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01-04-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
(01-04-2014 02:25 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  In the Abrahamic Covenant, there needed to be a blood sacrifice in order to have forgiveness of sins. In Abrahamic religions, sin causes death; therefore, if something else dies for you then they take your place - albeit for a time.

Jesus was considered "perfect" because he never sinned. So, His blood sacrifice lasts forever because His body was never tainted with sin.
.

Thanks King that clears it up. As muddy as it is. Really I could just as easily believe in a spagetti monster than believe that shit. Hilarious.
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01-04-2014, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 01-04-2014 03:13 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
(01-04-2014 02:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 02:44 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Consider
So...hypothetically speaking...if there was once a "perfect" goat that lived, and never sinned, then that "perfect" sinnless goat's blood sacrifice could have lasted forever too, because it's just about a body never tainted with sin?

Because it's not really about "Jesus" per se, but about a "perfect" sinnless body. Which could in theory be any "perfect" sinnless body, as long as you have one lying around to kill.

Well no. Everything of this world is affected by sin... including all of nature. So, the only way to have something that isn't affected by sin, it has to come from somewhere where there was no sin (heaven/Jesus/God).

It's a hypotetically "perfect", sinless goat, King...
It's hypotetical. Hypotetically speaking of there was a "perfect", sinless goat, then why would it not work, if that is the "reason" it worked?

So let’s extrapolate this further…

So you have this hypothetical “perfect” sinless goat. The second the goat proforms one “sin”, it no longer can absolve sin forever. However, if we kill that goat early enough in it’s life before it can sin, then the earlier we kill it, the more likely it will work.

So anyway, we have this hypothetical, “perfect”, sinless goat here. While it’s still alive, it has no impact on sin at all. It hast to die to do that. So we slice its throat, but it needs to bleed to death first. As it’s loosing blood, it begins to slip out of consciousness. It hasn’t yet done anything to sin.

But then it passes out from lack of oxygen in its brain. Technically it’s still alive, so no effect on sin yet. Sin is still out there in the world, in other people’s bodies.

The goat’s brain wave activity finally stops. It is now clinically dead. At the exact moment of death (which arguably, there is not one) all the sin in the world is sucked out of everyone’s bodies, and flies into the goats faster than the speed of light, so that the sin can be in the goat at the exact second of its death, taking the sin with it. But now that sin is just sitting in a dead animal body.

Where does the sin go now?

And if we are all still born sinners, then how did that dead goat help us?

Let’s say, based on the laws of physics, it’s magically true that if we ask that our sin be added back in time to the sin that joined that goat before we were ever born, or ever even preformed a sin, then our sin travels back in time, like a tackeon pulse, and joins that goat at the moment of its death. But I have to chant an incantation, something like “I believe in you magical sinless goat. Please take my sin back into the past and remove it from me before I even did it, tough in the future for that event of my sin being removed I will still do the sin, but it will leave this time frame at the moment if finish this incantation.”

Is that how it works, hypothetically?

...
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01-04-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
(01-04-2014 02:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well no. Everything of this world is affected by sin... including all of nature. So, the only way to have something that isn't affected by sin, it has to come from somewhere where there was no sin (heaven/Jesus/God).

Also, if everything of nature is affected by sin, no matter what, then I never did anything wrong because it's not my fault. It's natures fault, so I'm free of guilt or responsibility for any of it.

...
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01-04-2014, 03:14 PM
RE: Easter is coming, I want to understand this Jesus story
I should have clarified that God requires a blood sacrifice for forgiveness. Jesus' sacrifice offered forgiveness for all (elect) sins (God forgave because of this sacrifice).

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