Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
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13-04-2012, 06:34 AM
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
I would fall in the crowd that says no, not even a mortal historical Jesus existed. There are no contemporary accounts of him whatsoever. Writers, politicians, religious authorities who were all living at the time when he was supposed to of have, never bother to mention him.

Christian apologists like to create the impression that our exact knowledge of this era is fuzzy. In fact, the Roman Empire was in full swing, and there are abundant historical writings and records of the time. Roman governors at the time went to great lengths to make mention of pesky Jewish rabbis and rebellious figures that were in their prefect. Yet, nobody even seems to notice that Jesus ever existed, even though he was supposedly whipping the populace into a frenzy.
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13-04-2012, 09:10 AM
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
I am Jesus. Angel

"You don't disappoint me.... I think your much braver than you may believe."
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13-04-2012, 09:42 AM
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
(13-04-2012 09:10 AM)xLegendofLink096x Wrote:  I am Jesus. Angel


Jesus of Narnia?
Jesus of Neverland?
Jesus of Nogales?
Jesus of Nebraska?
Big Grin

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13-04-2012, 09:47 AM
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
Jesus.. of Jesus. Clap Worship Slaves Beat_stick

"You don't disappoint me.... I think your much braver than you may believe."
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13-04-2012, 10:15 AM
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
Very interesting thread, wanted to thank everyone who went through great pains to explain everything.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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13-04-2012, 11:16 AM
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
You have to believe that God took the form of a man, but couldn't write down his own message.
He surrounded himself with "ignorant" and "noting to loose" followers who couldn't read or write either.
His entire mission was to get killed and somehow the populations would "get it".
The entire story is absurd. Only the delusional embrace it.

I have settled on the crazy Rabbi story. Bastard son of a Roman Soldier. Mary was hot for her soldier, but her father sold her off to a man twice her age, Joseph. Like any teenage girl she got with her true love before being sold off. How romantic. No virgin birth.
The Romans knew who Jesus was. According to the Romans he was hung after he spent a month in jail waiting for someone to come forward and speak on his behalf. No one did. The Romans are just lying I suppose.


How this story got so far out of hand is easy to surmise. Constantine combined ALL of the med religions into a single state sponsored theology. This makes way too much sense when you have clearly documented that the Roman Empire was being torn apart by warring religious factions. Constantine never converted to Christianity. His death bed conversion like so many claimed was just part of the show.


It takes no logical or rational contorting to understand the story. The understanding of human nature easily fills in factual gaps and what "probably" happened. It's the divinity argument that asks you to throw away reason to believe it.

It's time to move on with the real problems of humanity, like feeding 9 billion people.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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13-04-2012, 12:04 PM
 
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
(13-04-2012 04:47 AM)Filox Wrote:  P.S.
I like how Egor has explained his religious view on the Jesus person, that is actually pretty logical and intelligent, since he is a believer, meaning that people who are like Egor usually tend to go crazy over the fact that we think Jesus did not exist. To think of him not as a person, but as an idea is pretty advanced and I can accept that kind of thinking much easier than to push Jesus as something ultimate, real and original, when it is clear that is all very controversial. Accepting him as an IDEA changes all that and it all becomes irrelevant.

We may not agree with that, Egor still believes in him as true, real and ultimate, but what he said about the idea of Jesus is a good way to put things into a perspective if you are a religious person. Much better than to literally push Jesus person in the first line.

Thank you. Although I disagree that it all becomes irrelevant. There is an ideal of Jesus Christ and God expects us to transform into that ideal. If we don't we are destroyed. If we reject it, He sends us to hell. Believing in Jesus, putting your faith in Jesus does not mean you believe the man existed 2000 years ago. It means you read his life and teachings and with your own free will orient yourself toward that ideal. You say to yourself, "This is true. This is the way to God. This is really being alive." You say to God, "I don't want to be what I was; I want to be like that." That is faith in Jesus Christ.

Did the man actually exist. It is ridiculous to assume he did not. We have the ancient Gospels, we have the way in which the world changed, and we have the first chapter of the book of John in the NT where the writer assumes (unwittingly) that the reader of his book knows who Jesus is and who John the Baptist was. So, obviously Jesus actually existed. But we weren't alive then. We are alive today, and today we have the Gospel record. Jesus, himself, put a lot more stock in his life and teachings than he did in his physical body. We should as well.
(13-04-2012 05:05 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  As for Egor ...one of the distinguishing features of most Christianities, (and there are countless, and always have been), is that usually, historically it develops in a worshiping community. Egor has been told he is not a Christian, by his compatriots on the web, (todays way of branding him a "heretic").

That is true. I am not a Christian. Which leaves me free to see the truth. I am a Veridican. I follow the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. That's it. Christians seem to follow a million other things as well as Jesus, and you can't have two (or more) masters.
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13-04-2012, 02:24 PM
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
(13-04-2012 12:04 PM)Egor Wrote:  Did the man actually exist. It is ridiculous to assume he did not.


I am not a Christian. Which leaves me free to see the truth. I am a Veridican. I follow the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. That's it.

1.) No one is assuming that Jesus Christ did not exist.
It's being flat-out proclaimed based on an astounding and humiliating lack of evidence.

2.) You follow the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and you're not a Christian?
Know what a root word is? Have any idea what the root word of Christian is?
Here, take another look: Christian Shocking See it now?

I call BS on this Egor business. Is it just me? Does anyone take this seriously?
I have a sneaking suspicion that Egor is actually lucradis, and he's laughing his ass off
as he toys with and incites this forum. Laughat Big Grin Big Grin

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13-04-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
I do think Jesus existed. People who performed miracles and had followers were quite common back then, so he wouldn't have been such a big deal. Here is another guy with a similar rap sheet to Jesus'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_of_Tyana
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13-04-2012, 03:15 PM
RE: Educate me. Was there a Jesus?
There were many itinerant apocalyptic preachers wandering around. They ALL performed "miracles". Jesus was one among many ...they were a dime a dozen. If the references to the other wandering preachers is held as valid, so can the gospels, at least in that he walked around. http://video.pbs.org/video/1365214164/ He was nothing special, in a Roman occupied backwater. Why would anyone write about him ?

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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