Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
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29-02-2012, 04:52 PM
Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
Before I say anything, I would like to commend you on how you've been treating people lately. You've been a pleasure. Also, this is a serious discussion about Veridicanism, so I would ask everyone to not ridicule it like we have done before. That's not fair to Egor.

Anyway, Egor:

1) Why does Veridicanism subscribe to choice and not election? Not saying either way is correct, I just want to under the theology behind it.
2) What is God's power in Veridicanism? Is he omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent?
3) Why is Christ essential to Veridicanism? What I mean is, why isn't it Mohammed, Buddha, etc?

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01-03-2012, 11:02 AM
 
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(29-02-2012 04:52 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Before I say anything, I would like to commend you on how you've been treating people lately. You've been a pleasure. Also, this is a serious discussion about Veridicanism, so I would ask everyone to not ridicule it like we have done before. That's not fair to Egor.

Thank you. And sorry I didn’t respond to this last night. I didn’t see it until just now.

Quote:Anyway, Egor:

1) Why does Veridicanism subscribe to choice and not election? Not saying either way is correct, I just want to under the theology behind it.


It’s funny you should ask, because I’m kind of wondering the same thing myself. Consider the following verses (You’ll probably recognize them from your own Gospels in the Holy Bible as well.):

“You did not choose Me, but rather I chose you, and I have ordained you to go and bear fruit and that your fruit will endure. (VGJC 45:13)

“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so to the Son gives life to whomever He wishes. (VGJC 12:19)

“Unless the Father shortens those days, no life will be left, but He will shorten those days for the sake of the elect whom He has chosen. (VGJC 37:22)

“While I was with them, I kept them in Your name which You gave to Me; and I protected them, and not one of them perished, except for the one doomed to destruction from the beginning. (VGJC 47:9)



I find it impossible to deny election when these verses exist in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Granted, these next two verses also exist:

“For it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that even one of his children should perish.” (VGJC 29:4)

“Truly I tell you, anyone who hears My word, and believes in Him who sent Me, has eternal life and does not come into judgment, but rather has passed out of death into life. (VGJC 12:21)



But as I read them, I don’t think they negate election. And I’m not so sure that 29:4 doesn’t belong up with the previous verses supporting election. For that matter 12:21 may only be describing a process that applies to the elect. In other words “anyone” is referring to those who hear his words and believe, i.e., the elect.

So, I hadn’t actually considered it much before, since there are only two of us (Veridicans), but I would say, as the founder of Veridicanism, that Veridican theology does endorse election. And let’s not forget this verse to top everything off:

And He said to them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to them it has not been granted, and those who are outside hear everything in parables, so that while seeing with their eyes, they really see nothing, and while hearing with their ears, they can understand nothing. (VGJC 13:9)

Not only does Jesus seem to elect his followers, but deliberately speaks in parables to keep the unelected from understanding.

Quote:2) What is God's power in Veridicanism? Is he omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent?


Well, yes. As I’ve said before, God is monistic in His nature, so all that really exists is God. But even more to the point, the consciousness of God is total. He knows the position of every quark at every moment. So, it’s safe to say that God is nothing like a person that we would recognize, for no one in our imagining is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. God is not a person, per se. I pray to the Father, and the Father speaks to me, but that only touches one dot on the surface of a very large entity. And this brings us to your third question.

Quote:3) Why is Christ essential to Veridicanism? What I mean is, why isn't it Mohammed, Buddha, etc?


God cannot be understood. God cannot be fathomed by the human mind. In order for us to approach God, we must have a revelation of God. Through the lens of Jesus Christ we see God as the Father and we can approach that. We become one with the spirit of Christ, and we are transformed, reborn, into Christ. Thus we come to know God as the Father in this phase or our existence.

Mohammed is not a revelation of God. He is a prophet, and Jesus told us we would know a tree by the fruit it bears. My basic opinion is that Mohammed is simply unnecessary with the Gospels of Jesus Christ already available. Islam really belongs somewhere in-between Judaism and Christianity.

Buddha is more like a revelation of God, but he is not particularly useful. What I mean is that Buddha would have you give up all desire and fade into a non-existent ego as you come to the enlightenment of Zen. But all that is is a kind or spiritual suicide, which is why you have monks sitting around for hours meditating by clearing their minds. They are dissolving into the monism of God, but that has no use in our physical phase of existence. That’s not growth. We are supposed to grow into God, not dissolve into God.

And our growth into God continues after we die. First there is the lucid stage, then there is the overseer stage, then there are other stages I know nothing about, and eventually we become fully conscious as God.

So, why not just dissolve and skip all the middle stuff? Because God is a glutton for glory. There’s no glory in our dissolving into him. There is glory in our growing into him.

Imagine you plant an acorn in your yard as a very small child, and your whole life you watch as the oak tree grows, and just before you die you step outside to marvel at how large the tree has grown. Now compare that to calling up a tree service and having them come out and plant an oak tree in your yard with a big crane. Same thing goes for Buddha vs. Christ.
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01-03-2012, 11:27 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 12:03 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(01-03-2012 11:02 AM)Egor Wrote:  Thank you. And sorry I didn’t respond to this last night. I didn’t see it until just now.

No problem. I understand how swamped things can get.

Quote:It’s funny you should ask, because I’m kind of wondering the same thing myself. Consider the following verses (You’ll probably recognize them from your own Gospels in the Holy Bible as well.):

Before we continue, let me ask you these questions:

1) How are you are ascertaining the Veridican Gospel? Is God dictating it to you?
2) If so, is it infallible?
3) Moreover, if this is true, how are you different than Mohammed, Joseph Smith, or Jim Jones (not an insult)?
4) Why should people trust your Gospel over the Bible's? In other words, how can people know Veridicanism is truth?

Okay, moving on...


Quote:“You did not choose Me, but rather I chose you, and I have ordained you to go and bear fruit and that your fruit will endure. (VGJC 45:13)

“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so to the Son gives life to whomever He wishes. (VGJC 12:19)

“Unless the Father shortens those days, no life will be left, but He will shorten those days for the sake of the elect whom He has chosen. (VGJC 37:22)

“While I was with them, I kept them in Your name which You gave to Me; and I protected them, and not one of them perished, except for the one doomed to destruction from the beginning. (VGJC 47:9)



I find it impossible to deny election when these verses exist in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Granted, these next two verses also exist:

“For it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that even one of his children should perish.” (VGJC 29:4)

“Truly I tell you, anyone who hears My word, and believes in Him who sent Me, has eternal life and does not come into judgment, but rather has passed out of death into life. (VGJC 12:21)



But as I read them, I don’t think they negate election. And I’m not so sure that 29:4 doesn’t belong up with the previous verses supporting election. For that matter 12:21 may only be describing a process that applies to the elect. In other words “anyone” is referring to those who hear his words and believe, i.e., the elect.

So, I hadn’t actually considered it much before, since there are only two of us (Veridicans), but I would say, as the founder of Veridicanism, that Veridican theology does endorse election. And let’s not forget this verse to top everything off:

And He said to them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to them it has not been granted, and those who are outside hear everything in parables, so that while seeing with their eyes, they really see nothing, and while hearing with their ears, they can understand nothing. (VGJC 13:9)

Not only does Jesus seem to elect his followers, but deliberately speaks in parables to keep the unelected from understanding.

This is interesting. And, I want to agree with you on the point of Jesus' parable being directed toward the elect. The rich young ruler is one of those.

Quote:Well, yes. As I’ve said before, God is monistic in His nature, so all that really exists is God. But even more to the point, the consciousness of God is total. He knows the position of every quark at every moment. So, it’s safe to say that God is nothing like a person that we would recognize, for no one in our imagining is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. God is not a person, per se. I pray to the Father, and the Father speaks to me, but that only touches one dot on the surface of a very large entity. And this brings us to your third question.

Okay, I understand this a bit more now; and, I agree that God is not like we imagine Him (human).

So, let me see if I understand this. God is one; however, He chooses to reveal Himself in numerous ways; not just in the forms of the Trinity as taught in Christianity.


Quote:God cannot be understood. God cannot be fathomed by the human mind. In order for us to approach God, we must have a revelation of God. Through the lens of Jesus Christ we see God as the Father and we can approach that. We become one with the spirit of Christ, and we are transformed, reborn, into Christ. Thus we come to know God as the Father in this phase or our existence.

Mohammed is not a revelation of God. He is a prophet, and Jesus told us we would know a tree by the fruit it bears. My basic opinion is that Mohammed is simply unnecessary with the Gospels of Jesus Christ already available. Islam really belongs somewhere in-between Judaism and Christianity.

Buddha is more like a revelation of God, but he is not particularly useful. What I mean is that Buddha would have you give up all desire and fade into a non-existent ego as you come to the enlightenment of Zen. But all that is is a kind or spiritual suicide, which is why you have monks sitting around for hours meditating by clearing their minds. They are dissolving into the monism of God, but that has no use in our physical phase of existence. That’s not growth. We are supposed to grow into God, not dissolve into God.

And our growth into God continues after we die. First there is the lucid stage, then there is the overseer stage, then there are other stages I know nothing about, and eventually we become fully conscious as God.

So, why not just dissolve and skip all the middle stuff? Because God is a glutton for glory. There’s no glory in our dissolving into him. There is glory in our growing into him.

Imagine you plant an acorn in your yard as a very small child, and your whole life you watch as the oak tree grows, and just before you die you step outside to marvel at how large the tree has grown. Now compare that to calling up a tree service and having them come out and plant an oak tree in your yard with a big crane. Same thing goes for Buddha vs. Christ.

I understand this... again, I want to be clear. Christ isn't the Messiah or Savior. He is simply the way God reveals Himself to us and becomes a conduit to God through his (Jesus) teachings. Jesus' teachings allow us to grow, understand, and become one with God.

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01-03-2012, 11:51 AM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
If I may jump in with a question, I'm trying to get my head around the connection of monism with damnation.

If all that exists is God (if I'm understanding your definition of monism), then if a non-believer is damned to hell, do you see any quandary in the fact that God is essentially condemning his "godness" to eternal torment? And if I'm not representing your view in the question, then how does hell and condemnation fit with your concept of a monistic God?

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01-03-2012, 02:52 PM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
Egor, if you ever pass through Baton Rouge, let me know. We could have a good discussion.

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01-03-2012, 03:27 PM
 
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(01-03-2012 11:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 11:02 AM)Egor Wrote:  Thank you. And sorry I didn’t respond to this last night. I didn’t see it until just now.

No problem. I understand how swamped things can get.

Quote:It’s funny you should ask, because I’m kind of wondering the same thing myself. Consider the following verses (You’ll probably recognize them from your own Gospels in the Holy Bible as well.):

Before we continue, let me ask you these questions:

1) How are you are ascertaining the Veridican Gospel? Is God dictating it to you?
2) If so, is it infallible?
3) Moreover, if this is true, how are you different than Mohammed, Joseph Smith, or Jim Jones (not an insult)?
4) Why should people trust your Gospel over the Bible's? In other words, how can people know Veridicanism is truth?

Okay, moving on...


Quote:“You did not choose Me, but rather I chose you, and I have ordained you to go and bear fruit and that your fruit will endure. (VGJC 45:13)

“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so to the Son gives life to whomever He wishes. (VGJC 12:19)

“Unless the Father shortens those days, no life will be left, but He will shorten those days for the sake of the elect whom He has chosen. (VGJC 37:22)

“While I was with them, I kept them in Your name which You gave to Me; and I protected them, and not one of them perished, except for the one doomed to destruction from the beginning. (VGJC 47:9)



I find it impossible to deny election when these verses exist in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Granted, these next two verses also exist:

“For it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that even one of his children should perish.” (VGJC 29:4)

“Truly I tell you, anyone who hears My word, and believes in Him who sent Me, has eternal life and does not come into judgment, but rather has passed out of death into life. (VGJC 12:21)



But as I read them, I don’t think they negate election. And I’m not so sure that 29:4 doesn’t belong up with the previous verses supporting election. For that matter 12:21 may only be describing a process that applies to the elect. In other words “anyone” is referring to those who hear his words and believe, i.e., the elect.

So, I hadn’t actually considered it much before, since there are only two of us (Veridicans), but I would say, as the founder of Veridicanism, that Veridican theology does endorse election. And let’s not forget this verse to top everything off:

And He said to them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to them it has not been granted, and those who are outside hear everything in parables, so that while seeing with their eyes, they really see nothing, and while hearing with their ears, they can understand nothing. (VGJC 13:9)

Not only does Jesus seem to elect his followers, but deliberately speaks in parables to keep the unelected from understanding.

This is interesting. And, I want to agree with you on the point of Jesus' parable being directed toward the elect. The rich young ruler is one of those.

Quote:Well, yes. As I’ve said before, God is monistic in His nature, so all that really exists is God. But even more to the point, the consciousness of God is total. He knows the position of every quark at every moment. So, it’s safe to say that God is nothing like a person that we would recognize, for no one in our imagining is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. God is not a person, per se. I pray to the Father, and the Father speaks to me, but that only touches one dot on the surface of a very large entity. And this brings us to your third question.

Okay, I understand this a bit more now; and, I agree that God is not like we imagine Him (human).

So, let me see if I understand this. God is one; however, He chooses to reveal Himself in numerous ways; not just in the forms of the Trinity as taught in Christianity.


Quote:God cannot be understood. God cannot be fathomed by the human mind. In order for us to approach God, we must have a revelation of God. Through the lens of Jesus Christ we see God as the Father and we can approach that. We become one with the spirit of Christ, and we are transformed, reborn, into Christ. Thus we come to know God as the Father in this phase or our existence.

Mohammed is not a revelation of God. He is a prophet, and Jesus told us we would know a tree by the fruit it bears. My basic opinion is that Mohammed is simply unnecessary with the Gospels of Jesus Christ already available. Islam really belongs somewhere in-between Judaism and Christianity.

Buddha is more like a revelation of God, but he is not particularly useful. What I mean is that Buddha would have you give up all desire and fade into a non-existent ego as you come to the enlightenment of Zen. But all that is is a kind or spiritual suicide, which is why you have monks sitting around for hours meditating by clearing their minds. They are dissolving into the monism of God, but that has no use in our physical phase of existence. That’s not growth. We are supposed to grow into God, not dissolve into God.

And our growth into God continues after we die. First there is the lucid stage, then there is the overseer stage, then there are other stages I know nothing about, and eventually we become fully conscious as God.

So, why not just dissolve and skip all the middle stuff? Because God is a glutton for glory. There’s no glory in our dissolving into him. There is glory in our growing into him.

Imagine you plant an acorn in your yard as a very small child, and your whole life you watch as the oak tree grows, and just before you die you step outside to marvel at how large the tree has grown. Now compare that to calling up a tree service and having them come out and plant an oak tree in your yard with a big crane. Same thing goes for Buddha vs. Christ.

I understand this... again, I want to be clear. Christ isn't the Messiah or Savior. He is simply the way God reveals Himself to us and becomes a conduit to God through his (Jesus) teachings. Jesus' teachings allow us to grow, understand, and become one with God.
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02-03-2012, 01:40 AM
 
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(01-03-2012 11:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  How are you are ascertaining the Veridican Gospel? Is God dictating it to you?

The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ is a synthesis of the four New Testament Gospels as well as the Gospel of Thomas. I believe God inspired my synthesis of those Gospels into one. I actually wrote it back in 2005, but I edited it just recently and published it. It will be available shortly within the next two or three weeks.

Back in 2005 I felt an absolute calling by the Holy Spirit to synthesize the Gospels mainly because the Gospel of Thomas was not in the Christian canon, and it is an essential Gospel to understanding Jesus Christ. It took me approximately one year. I don’t know how to explain it to you. It just seemed like the thing I was supposed to do, and I had no doubt about it.

Bear in mind that Veridicans only follow the Gospels, no other part of the Bible. So as well as bringing Thomas in, it also freed the Gospels from the rest of the Bible.

And I certainly do believe that every decision I made during the synthesis was communicated to me by God. I made no decisions on my own.


Quote: If so, is it infallible?

Not in its message, no. Is there a comma out of place or a missing quotation mark? Maybe. But if there are they will be fixed in later editions. The original edition is the 2012 publication. It is my Bible. It is the Veridican Bible.
In that it communicates the clear Gospel message of Jesus Christ, it is infallible. There is nothing there that is out of place. It is the true Gospel message. The Gospel message was never intended to stay split up between four books and a Gospel that wasn’t found until 1945. This is the evolution of the Gospel message into its highest form. IMHO.


Quote: Moreover, if this is true, how are you different than Mohammed, Joseph Smith, or Jim Jones (not an insult)?

Well, I’m not like Mohammed or Joseph Smith, because I haven’t really created a new message. I’m actually more like one of the Gospel writers. As for Jim Jones, I’m not starting a cult of followers. One can’t be a Veridican and be a follower. It would be absurd given the fact that the whole idea is that one becomes one with Christ and one in Christ.

If I’m one in Christ and one with Christ and you’re one in Christ and one with Christ, how could either one of us be the spiritual authority of the other? We would be perfectly equal. In fact, according to Jesus, we would be each other’s servant. I’m not sure how that works, but I think it means you teach me and I teach you.

The purpose of a human being is to become one with Christ, and Christ, ultimately, is the consciousness of God from within His creation. But every individual has an individual purpose they live out as Christ. Mine is obviously to start this religion and write books. I’m not a good preacher, and I’m not a very good leader at all. But another person might be a good preacher, and that would be their purpose in Christ, or an artist, or a tax accountant, or a doctor or nurse, whatever. In Veridicanism everyone is the servant. No one is the leader. I am the founder, but I’m not the leader.

True, my wife and I are the only Veridicans, so we are making the early decisions about what shape Veridicanism will take, and that’s part of the will of God. But in a year or two, that will all be accomplished. I don’t think we’re too far away from it now, now that the Salvation Creed is decided on.

Alas, I’m rambling.


Quote:Why should people trust your Gospel over the Bible's? In other words, how can people know Veridicanism is truth?

Those are actually two different questions, so I’ll take the first one first. They wouldn’t trust the VGJC over the Bible. The Bible is where it comes from. The Old Testament is an historical reference for it, the letters of the NT are commentary on it, and Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are the seeds of it. But the Bible doesn’t include the Gospel of Thomas, and God intended that to be part of the Gospel at this time in human history.

Now, as for Veridicanism. One knows it’s true because they see the rationality of the two tenets and the value of the three spiritual exercises, not to mention having the revelation of Christ to guide them. In the end they have a closer walk with God in this life and go on to the next phase of their existence when they leave here.

And this I think is probably true, Veridicanism will be what’s left standing when the Christian Church walks away from Christ once and for all.


Quote:So, let me see if I understand this. God is one; however, He chooses to reveal Himself in numerous ways; not just in the forms of the Trinity as taught in Christianity.

The way a Veridican would say that all there is is God. Everything else is a modality of one of His attributes. For instance in my theory of souls, there is the attribute of the human soul. This attribute is expressed in the modality of an individual human being in the physical world. Each human being is a modality of that attribute. You could think of attributes like the perfect forms Plato talked about.

As for the Trinity, that just isn’t a concept I have much to do with. Jesus referred to himself as the Son of God, and of course, there is the Father, and the Holy Spirit. These are attributes of God, but I think there are many more. Spinoza would say there are infinite attributes expressed through infinite modalities. I’m more inclined to believe there is a perfect number of attributes, expressed in a perfect number of modalities. But I admit that could be debatable.


Quote: I want to be clear. Christ isn't the Messiah or Savior. He is simply the way God reveals Himself to us and becomes a conduit to God through his (Jesus) teachings. Jesus' teachings allow us to grow, understand, and become one with God.

Well, yes, in that very sense he is the Savior. Messiah is a term I’m not all too familiar with except as a Jewish notion. It doesn’t carry forward into the Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ, so I’m going to have to pass on commenting on that.
To a Veridican, Jesus Christ is exactly what he says he is: a prophet, a teacher, the Son of God (which we become when we are born again; it’s what we are born again as). And he’s the way, the truth and the life. And he is Christ, the greatest possible consciousness of God within His creation. But Jesus was something more, and the mystery of him continues to draw me in, so at this time I don’t have a complete answer. I don’t think Jesus comes from the same attribute as human beings. Even though we are born again into Christ, we never seem to reach the fulfillment of Christ that Jesus did. Or at least no one ever has.

There is no birth narrative in Veridicanism or in the Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ, But in the birth narrative of Matthew and Luke, the idea that Jesus was born of a woman and the Holy Spirit indicates to me that early Christians saw him as something other than human as well.

Obviously there is a great deal of Veridican theology to be written. I don’t necessarily want to be the one to do that, however. I really would rather other Veridicans in the future study the Gospel and put forward propositions to compete in the arena of ideas among the entire body of believers who are one in Christ.

For instance, I have written the tenets, the Gospel, the salvation creed (which has now been added to the website http://www.veridican.com), we have prescribed three essential spiritual exercises for those who are one with Christ, and I’ve even outlined a Veridican concept of heaven and hell. I’m not sure my hand needs to be in play more than that. I see my mission after the basics of Veridicanism are established as an apologist and a writer. The next book I have coming out is going to be on believing in God and the immortal soul. And of course, I want to combat the atheistic influence in society.

(01-03-2012 02:52 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Egor, if you ever pass through Baton Rouge, let me know. We could have a good discussion.

Will do. Smile
(01-03-2012 11:51 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  If I may jump in with a question, I'm trying to get my head around the connection of monism with damnation.

If all that exists is God (if I'm understanding your definition of monism), then if a non-believer is damned to hell, do you see any quandary in the fact that God is essentially condemning his "godness" to eternal torment? And if I'm not representing your view in the question, then how does hell and condemnation fit with your concept of a monistic God?

You have a good point. However, hell exists because Jesus said it exists. That’s why I entertain it. God is necessarily monistic in His nature. So for me, these are axioms I will not put down even if I can’t figure out how they work together. But this is my theory:

The modality of the attribute of the Human Soul that represents you—for argument sake—is sent to hell and the suffering that you endure is a pleasure to God. In other words, the suffering itself makes the rejection of Christ okay. It balances it. That modality of God is suffering, but that suffering is a pleasure to God.

What’s even more bizarre, however, is that God seems to have already elected those he will save. The rest are either destroyed or sent to hell. The reason I believe that most modalities are destroyed rather than sent to hell is because of the following verse:

“But the gate to the kingdom is narrow, and few are those who ever enter it. Wide is the gate that leads to destruction, and many are they who pass through it.” (VGJC 7:31)

Hell seems to be for those who specifically reject Christ.

That’s my theory on it as of late, but I’m certainly willing to listen to counterarguments and adjust my stance. The fact is, it’s a bit of a mystery to me as well, but I think I have a handle on it. I do continue to contemplate that and talk with God about it, but I’m not sure at this time I have the complete revelation.
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02-03-2012, 07:48 AM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(02-03-2012 01:40 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 11:51 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  If I may jump in with a question, I'm trying to get my head around the connection of monism with damnation.

If all that exists is God (if I'm understanding your definition of monism), then if a non-believer is damned to hell, do you see any quandary in the fact that God is essentially condemning his "godness" to eternal torment? And if I'm not representing your view in the question, then how does hell and condemnation fit with your concept of a monistic God?

You have a good point. However, hell exists because Jesus said it exists. That’s why I entertain it. God is necessarily monistic in His nature. So for me, these are axioms I will not put down even if I can’t figure out how they work together. But this is my theory:

The modality of the attribute of the Human Soul that represents you—for argument sake—is sent to hell and the suffering that you endure is a pleasure to God. In other words, the suffering itself makes the rejection of Christ okay. It balances it. That modality of God is suffering, but that suffering is a pleasure to God.

What’s even more bizarre, however, is that God seems to have already elected those he will save. The rest are either destroyed or sent to hell. The reason I believe that most modalities are destroyed rather than sent to hell is because of the following verse:

“But the gate to the kingdom is narrow, and few are those who ever enter it. Wide is the gate that leads to destruction, and many are they who pass through it.” (VGJC 7:31)

Hell seems to be for those who specifically reject Christ.

That’s my theory on it as of late, but I’m certainly willing to listen to counterarguments and adjust my stance. The fact is, it’s a bit of a mystery to me as well, but I think I have a handle on it. I do continue to contemplate that and talk with God about it, but I’m not sure at this time I have the complete revelation.

Let me rephrase your idea of Judgment to see if I understood it. It seems to me you're saying hell is a real place, but there might be two types of punishments: Destruction, by which I think you mean Annihilation, and Torment, by which I mean burning eternally in a lake of fire. I'm guessing you're saying that people who never rejected Christ because they never heard of him would be annihilated but people such as myself who knew Christ yet rejected him will bring great pleasure to God (and by the transitive property, to you and the elect) by my never-ending screams of torment. Is that about right?

Would you consider KC a "Brother in Christ" even if he rejects the idea of Veridicanism yet still professes to be elect?

Last thought: you said you haven't really explored the idea of Messiah too much, and yet you use the title Jesus Christ. I'm not trying to sound pedantic, but Christ isn't Jesus' last name as in Mr. Christ. It's a title, and the title is the Greek word that means Messiah. So I'm thinking that if you're going to use that title in your theology you might want to go back and see what Messiah means and how the OT message about the Christ fits with your Gnostic version.

Oh, and I'm dying to know why animal husbandry is such an important tenet to Veridicanism.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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02-03-2012, 08:31 AM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
It's amazing the silly weird stuff that folks can think up isn't it?
Give 'em some ancient text and watch them run with it and twist it every which way that can.

"I really would rather other Veridicans in the future study the Gospel and put forward propositions to compete in the arena of ideas"

All hail the power of root beer!

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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02-03-2012, 09:37 AM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(02-03-2012 07:48 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Hell seems to be for those who specifically reject Christ.

For a compassionate and fair god, hell should be for those who consciously do bad, regardless of anything else.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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