Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
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07-03-2012, 02:51 PM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(07-03-2012 02:28 PM)morondog Wrote:  You're obviously deliberately trying to start something here with your taunting. Don't try and pretend otherwise. Seriously, why does it matter to you that I and others have a discussion with Egor? Yes, he was a pretty awful troll but he's been pretty OK recently and he's actually changed his views - not so fundamentalist now, in fact fairly radical by Christian standards. I find that interesting. You... why am I letting you get to me. Go ahead and sneer all you want.

Then I will try not to pretend otherwise.....
So I have been accused both of taunting and ridiculing.... who is it that I am ridiculing and taunting ?

Should I acquiesce to your protestations simply for the sake of your feelings or for Egors ?
You see, I am confused as to who it is you are trying to protect from my taunting.
Is it wrong of me to question someone who promulgates the suffering of others ?
Is it wrong of me to question someone who aides and abets the incipient hate and loathing for its fellow human species ?

If I am in the wrong.... well you know, just forgive me.
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07-03-2012, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2012 03:04 PM by morondog.)
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(07-03-2012 02:51 PM)Sol Wrote:  Then I will try not to pretend otherwise.....
So I have been accused both of taunting and ridiculing.... who is it that I am ridiculing and taunting ?

Should I acquiesce to your protestations simply for the sake of your feelings or for Egors ?
You see, I am confused as to who it is you are trying to protect from my taunting.
Is it wrong of me to question someone who promulgates the suffering of others ?
Is it wrong of me to question someone who aides and abets the incipient hate and loathing for its fellow human species ?

If I am in the wrong.... well you know, just forgive me.

I think maybe I overreacted a bit. Allow me to explain. Some of us can remember a time when we ourselves were drinking the Kool-Aid. You came in and basically said (a) Egor's stupid (b) You guys are all stupid for talking to him, at least that's what I read into your posts.

And now you're acting all surprised that we're barking at you.
PS: I have come across a bit strong myself... apologies.
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07-03-2012, 03:22 PM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(07-03-2012 03:03 PM)morondog Wrote:  I think maybe I overreacted a bit. Allow me to explain. Some of us can remember a time when we ourselves were drinking the Kool-Aid. You came in and basically said (a) Egor's stupid (b) You guys are all stupid for talking to him, at least that's what I read into your posts.

And now you're acting all surprised that we're barking at you.
PS: I have come across a bit strong myself... apologies.

Bark away, its what you should be doing. Tell me when you think I'm wrong. You should, its your duty as a rational, thinking person...... Wink

I don't think " all you guys" are stupid for talking to him. Its just that it seems a few are enabling him....

So bark and have a go at me by all means... but could you extend the same courtesy to the religidiots ?

Don't talk them down from the high building.... let them jump ! it's not like we are losing a cure for cancer or anything.
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07-03-2012, 03:34 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2012 03:37 PM by morondog.)
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(07-03-2012 03:22 PM)Sol Wrote:  So bark and have a go at me by all means... but could you extend the same courtesy to the religidiots ?

Don't talk them down from the high building.... let them jump ! it's not like we are losing a cure for cancer or anything.

The thing is that you *can't* talk to most religious people (at least on a forum like this, I have religious friends I get on with perfectly as long as we're all very careful not to talk about religion Tongue ). I treasure the ones that I can talk to Smile And it's not about converting them or whatever, it's more that the mindset actually fascinates me... to see someone trying to think but with walls in their thoughts beyond which or through which they cannot see... and of course the major reason it fascinates is because *I was there*. And now my thinking has changed and I wonder to myself, have I just swapped one set of walls for another? Are things really better over here or am I just satisfied with myself and feeling all clever?

I'm not saying rationality is bad. I'm pretty dead certain that a rational approach is the best way of doing things. But Egor is applying something approaching rationality within a bounded set of rules, axioms if you will, that he takes as given. That's interesting, because I wonder... what if *my own* thinking is limited by things that I will not question - so it's interesting to see someone struggling with this from the outside, to ask questions *within the framework* to see how he deals with them...
Oh BTW Egor sorry for taking your name in vain Tongue You are right here after all, I should have addressed myself to you and not used the third person...
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07-03-2012, 05:07 PM
 
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(07-03-2012 01:26 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-03-2012 12:38 PM)Sol Wrote:  Not having read though all of this waffle,

Then you aren't qualified to ridicule Egor.

Well said!

(07-03-2012 01:28 PM)kineo Wrote:  My biggest question to Egor (maybe he already answered this and I missed it) is what argument or arguments had the most impact on you realizing that Christianity was indefensible?

Okay, there’s the biggest and then there’s the first. The first thing that caused me to break away was realizing that Peter in the book of Acts wasn’t acting like Jesus told him to at the Last Supper. So, all the way back, there’s been a problem with Christianity. Second, is the Jewish connection: Christians aren’t really Christian per se, they are Judeo-Christian and the Old Testament just can’t be defended the way they defend it.
Finally, is the nature of God: Christians maintain that God created the universe out of nothing. That is absurd. I have recently come to realize what I call the monism/dualism paradox of God, and I think Christians would agree with that if they understood it, but as it is, they believe in a sub-god, not God.
Of course, both I and Christians agree on what’s required for salvation, so that’s what’s important.

(07-03-2012 02:28 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(07-03-2012 02:16 PM)Sol Wrote:  Unfortunately my intelligence doesn't extend to understanding the point your trying to make.... are you saying that some of you are walking through an intellectual maze with eddy...... really ? intellectual ?

You're obviously deliberately trying to start something here with your taunting. Don't try and pretend otherwise. Seriously, why does it matter to you that I and others have a discussion with Egor? Yes, he was a pretty awful troll but he's been pretty OK recently and he's actually changed his views - not so fundamentalist now, in fact fairly radical by Christian standards. I find that interesting. You... why am I letting you get to me. Go ahead and sneer all you want.

Sol is from Raving Atheist. I wouldn’t respond to him there so he followed me here. And thanks for the compliments. Based on a prophecy my wife provided, Veridicanism has had quite a breakthrough, which I’ll discuss more later. But thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I would like to be more like that myself.

(07-03-2012 03:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(07-03-2012 03:22 PM)Sol Wrote:  So bark and have a go at me by all means... but could you extend the same courtesy to the religidiots ?

Don't talk them down from the high building.... let them jump ! it's not like we are losing a cure for cancer or anything.

The thing is that you *can't* talk to most religious people (at least on a forum like this, I have religious friends I get on with perfectly as long as we're all very careful not to talk about religion Tongue ). I treasure the ones that I can talk to Smile And it's not about converting them or whatever, it's more that the mindset actually fascinates me... to see someone trying to think but with walls in their thoughts beyond which or through which they cannot see... and of course the major reason it fascinates is because *I was there*. And now my thinking has changed and I wonder to myself, have I just swapped one set of walls for another? Are things really better over here or am I just satisfied with myself and feeling all clever?

I'm not saying rationality is bad. I'm pretty dead certain that a rational approach is the best way of doing things. But Egor is applying something approaching rationality within a bounded set of rules, axioms if you will, that he takes as given. That's interesting, because I wonder... what if *my own* thinking is limited by things that I will not question - so it's interesting to see someone struggling with this from the outside, to ask questions *within the framework* to see how he deals with them...
Oh BTW Egor sorry for taking your name in vain Tongue You are right here after all, I should have addressed myself to you and not used the third person...

No…I was totally interested in what you had to say. I didn’t even notice the third-person stuff Shy
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07-03-2012, 05:37 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2012 06:11 PM by Sol.)
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(07-03-2012 03:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  The thing is that you *can't* talk to most religious people (at least on a forum like this, I have religious friends I get on with perfectly as long as we're all very careful not to talk about religion Tongue ). I treasure the ones that I can talk to Smile And it's not about converting them or whatever, it's more that the mindset actually fascinates me... to see someone trying to think but with walls in their thoughts beyond which or through which they cannot see... and of course the major reason it fascinates is because *I was there*. And now my thinking has changed and I wonder to myself, have I just swapped one set of walls for another? Are things really better over here or am I just satisfied with myself and feeling all clever?

This is perhaps were we differ, I have friends who have a god belief. Their belief reflects their thinking. When I discuss anything with my friends there are rules for any discussions - intellectual honesty, reasoned debate and logic. With this we can discuss religion and their belief is safe. it has no bearing on actual reality, except to them as individuals and is never offered as a basis for how "other people" should behave.
I don't think you have replaced one set of walls for another set. You have built bigger walls further away that are moveable.

(07-03-2012 03:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'm not saying rationality is bad. I'm pretty dead certain that a rational approach is the best way of doing things. But Egor is applying something approaching rationality within a bounded set of rules, axioms if you will, that he takes as given. That's interesting, because I wonder... what if *my own* thinking is limited by things that I will not question - so it's interesting to see someone struggling with this from the outside, to ask questions *within the framework* to see how he deals with them...

Respectfully, I would have to disagree, "egor" is no where near rational. Any set of rules for his delusions are not bounded within any known parameters of reason or logic. In the same way that detailed explanations for astrology, tarot cards or homeopathy are relevant to their functional use.

Axioms have to have at their core an element of logic that can be assumed to be true. At best he proffers inexact aphorisms of poor quality. He is a dark and troubled individual, from whom no useful knowledge can be gleaned.

If you think your own thinking is limited, then you are on the right track Because only with knowing our limitations, can "a man's grasp exceed his reach"

Egor, unfortunately, has reached the end of his abilities and is sadly grasping at straws...

(07-03-2012 05:07 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(07-03-2012 02:16 PM)Sol Wrote:  Unfortunately my intelligence doesn't extend to understanding the point your trying to make.... are you saying that some of you are walking through an intellectual maze with eddy...... really ? intellectual ?

Sol is from Raving Atheist. I wouldn’t respond to him there so he followed me here. And thanks for the compliments. Based on a prophecy my wife provided, Veridicanism has had quite a breakthrough, which I’ll discuss more later. But thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I would like to be more like that myself.

OH noes.....my cover is blown Sad you must be like Shirley Combs or somethink....

Who wouldn't want to know more about the Vulcan mind meld, be your own personal jeebus type stuff.....I want to be a jeebus just like you Angel

When you say "prophecy" do you mean the thing with batteries that vibrates which Mrs idiot usually provides. Or do you mean she makes shit up ?
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08-03-2012, 12:46 AM
 
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
You know Sol, I know for a fact you would never insult my wife to my face. I know it as sure as I'm typing this. I know it because I know men. Men with courage won't dishonor themeslves to insult a man's wife from the protection of the internet. That's why I don't inuslt you, or anyone else. I don't say things that would make you want to kick my ass, because I feel like that would be cowardly, because there's no way to let the contest between us occur. So, you can say whatever you want. I know you. I know you better than you know yourself. I know exactly how you'd react if we were face to face. I've seen it time and again. You're nothing. And you still have hell to look forward to.

And it's not even about size. I've met small guys who couldn't fight any more than they could climb Mt. Everest, and yet they have the spirit and courage of an army, and I'd have them with me in a battle any day of the week. I know them, too. And with my gloves on and mouth protector blurring my speech, I still call them, "Sir." You will never understand what I'm telling you, because you are not like them. Again, you are nothing. You are a coward. You are weak, and you still have hell to look forward to.

And then there are those rare intellectuals who are mighty in mind, even if they aren't fighting fit. But damn if they will back down; damn if they can't force me to change my mind. Who was it in here who brought up the point about hell and monism and the fact that God would only be sending himself to hell? I thought for an entire day, from sleep to sleep about that. I fought with it. I prayed about it and finally God gave me the answer. That person, destroyed Veridicanism as I have known it for a decade. And now, Veridicanism has emerged into something so powerful, there will be no stopping it. To that man, who probably isn't a physical fighter, I am in awe--no different than if he jumped in the air and took my head off with a jump spinning hook kick. He destroyed my world. To him I say, "Sir." But to you, I spit. And as sure as I'm sitting here today, I know, because I know men, if you had a girlfriend anyone of the men I described or even myself, if I were not committed to my wife whom you insult, we could have her in a minute.

But you don't have a girlfriend do you? And you know why? Because women know men, too.
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08-03-2012, 04:21 AM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
Wow Eddy, that puts me in my place doesn't it, with a big ole flea in my ear...and you did it all without any insults, how clever.

There was one small point that leapt out at me.......

(08-03-2012 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  To him I say, "Sir." But to you, I spit. And as sure as I'm sitting here today, I know, because I know men, if you had a girlfriend anyone of the men I described or even myself, if I were not committed to my wife whom you insult, we could have her in a minute.

What do you mean by have her ? seems somewhat misogynistic. Is that how you think women should be treated, eddy....that men can have them.

Most of the rational women I know would object to that approach... and rightly so.

Just sayin......
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08-03-2012, 04:30 AM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
Wow is this this the Egor appreciation society? What in all his garbage is there to appreciate? All Sol is doing is offering some tough love. Why is that so bad? This guy wants a flock, he wants to feel like his imaginary Jesus buddy. Why is that more acceptable than some weirdo wanting to be Batman or something? He doesn't answer anything that shows the major flaws in his thinking and preaches. How is that of any value? Over at RA we have merely asked him to put up or shut up. He has chosen to garble insanity and always let us know he has Taekwondo to back him up lol. What a pussy lol. Id use him as a barbell lol.
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08-03-2012, 05:36 AM
RE: Egor: About Veridicanism and its view of God
(08-03-2012 04:21 AM)Sol Wrote:  Wow Eddy, that puts me in my place doesn't it, with a big ole flea in my ear...and you did it all without any insults, how clever.

There was one small point that leapt out at me.......

(08-03-2012 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  To him I say, "Sir." But to you, I spit. And as sure as I'm sitting here today, I know, because I know men, if you had a girlfriend anyone of the men I described or even myself, if I were not committed to my wife whom you insult, we could have her in a minute.

What do you mean by have her ? seems somewhat misogynistic. Is that how you think women should be treated, eddy....that men can have them.

Most of the rational women I know would object to that approach... and rightly so.

Just sayin......

Heh. Egor ... Sol does get to you hey. The oldest trick in the book is to enrage your opponent - if you let yourself be goaded then you *will* lose. You know that anyway Wink Just reminding you.

Also would like to register that your rant about Sol and this offhand 'we could have your girlfriend' comment are pretty yuck.
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