Egor's Proof of God
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 4 Votes - 1 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
26-12-2011, 03:05 PM
 
RE: Egor's Proof of God
Before I start answering these replies, let me say that this will be my last post in this string. By all means, come back and have the last word. I’ll read it, I’m sure, but I won’t respond after this. I want to start a new post with a new argument for the existence of God, and I think this one has run its course.

(26-12-2011 12:31 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  Maybe I should explain so you can understand what he meant.

X stands for nothing
Y stands for God

Now for the equation:

X = perfect
Y = perfect
Y = X
God = Nothing

Hope you understand now.

That makes no more sense than the first time you posted it. You are still saying God is perfect and then saying nothing is perfect. You have contradictory premises. Here, let me help:

Nothing is perfect
Therefore, a perfect God cannot exist.
By definition of the term “God” God must be perfect.
Therefore, God is not a possible thing.

But of course, this argument that on the surface seems to disprove the existence of God (assuming the first premise is even true) is actually an argument for the existence of God. I wonder if you can figure out how.

Quote: So now you are picking and choosing which version you want to follow. Sorry it don't work that way. All or nothing. I won't play this cherry picking game with you.

You’re not real familiar with the Gospels are you? I’m not picking and choosing anything. Read the Gospels. Jesus was a pretty moody individual, and he had a really low tolerance for BS. In one part, he’s even invited to eat with some Pharisees and takes that moment, while sitting at their table to tell them how horrible they are and how they should change.



Quote:Yeah...I can't, lmao you are just hilarious....I have my wife and kids reading this. They are all laughing over my shoulder. I can't go on. This is horrible. I will not post on this topic again. Go ahead, say I ran away because I ran out of ammo if you must reassure yourself. Rest assured I'm not running away from you. I never will run. I have to walk away from this conversation because I truly think you need help and I'm not a qualified physician. I hope you receive help soon.

Crazy like a fox.

(26-12-2011 01:18 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Your arrogance is mind-boggling. Do you honestly think God needs you? Or your help? You are called to be a servant - like Christ was. Being a loud, obnoxious alarm clock to someone who has no desire to be awakened will only have two effects: 1) Get unplugged or be habitually placed on snooze or 2) be smashed so the person never has to hear the sound again.

God must need me. He created me. He gave me certain abilities that come naturally to me. I am using those in His service.

Quote:Yes, we are commanded by Christ to spread the gospel, but we are also commanded and instructed to be a light in the darkness. Have you forgotten the beatitudes? Have you forgotten the fruits of the spirit?

Berating, insulting, and damning people is a terrible way to talk to others about Christ. Developing a relationship and having polite, yet frank conversations is a much better approach.

Honestly, you're an embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves a Christian and you're doing a disservice to Christ.

You really, really need to study the Bible. Everything you describe was Jesus exhibiting righteous anger towards Pharisees and members of the temple. These people would be known as "Christians" nowadays. If you notice, Jesus' anger was the most intense for these type of villains. They claimed God but slandered His name with theft, legalism, and self idolatry. Never does Jesus act in righteous anger towards those that would be "unbelievers". He only acts in kindness, gentleness, love, peace, patience, goodness, joyfulness, faithfulness, and SELF CONTROL.

It's ironic that you mention Jesus chasing the hypocrites out of the temple... that's really what I should do to you if I want to be like Christ. Yes, you are acting out of love... your own love for yourself

I had some really good comebacks, but I deleted them all, because it just dawned on me. This is a trick of Satan’s. I should have recognized the work. I’ve been doing this for going on 20 years, and it happens all the time (and I fall for it a lot, unfortunately). Satan likes to get two Christians arguing with each other in front of atheists. That way we become sport for the atheists, and nothing more than a joke.

So, KC, I’m not going to argue with you.


Quote:PS - You still haven't answered my question about your logic or even tried to explain it.

I honestly don’t have a clue what you’re referring to, and I’m not going to go look for it, so you can either ask it again, or bring it up in the latest post on my blog.

(26-12-2011 02:16 AM)San Onofre Surfer Wrote:  "What is left ? A dark mass"
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
But thank you. "Fishing" are you ? Well fish all you like. You are now officially on "ignore".

I love it when I present an argument for the existence of God, and the only reply I get back is. “Hhahahahahah…you’re crazy. …you need help….you’re on ignore….etc.” I would call that a knockout. I think we need a ten count for you.

(26-12-2011 04:52 AM)morondog Wrote:  KC you're such a legend man Smile I fully expect Egor to come back with some loopy post expanding on his right to be a great big cock, but I'd love to see how he answers your comments on the beatitudes and fruits of the spirit.

I’ll bet you would. Aren’t you an atheist, Morondog? What do you care, then, about the beatitudes and the fruits of the spirit? They mean nothing to you. If there is no God, then Jesus was a deluded self-absorbed preacher. Why would any of his teachings matter to you?

Quote:Hey Egor. I know I've been pretty negative at you recently. You've pretty much admitted you deserve it, with your comments that you are a sinner and so on. Despite all this I'm dumb enough to believe that you can see the error of your ways.

What?

Yes indeed. Mr Egor. I submit that you need to think. For a start, you will recognize that almost no other human has a theology as rigid and uncompromising as your own.

Well, then I’m in good company with Jesus Christ, aren’t I?




Quote:Either that means that everyone else is gonna go to hell, *or* perhaps you need to rethink. It'll be lonely in heaven with an army of one. Or is your pastor and church equally rigid?

I get my theology from Jesus Christ. He said that many are called, but few are chosen. That the gate to destruction is wide, but the gate to eternal life is narrow. Heaven won’t be as crowded as hell.

Quote:Second, it seems that on every forum you go to (I saw a quote in your blog from an atheist one, but you say there that you also frequent Christian forums), people wind up disagreeing with you. *You need to at least consider* that they may be onto something. Do you think of yourself as of God-like intelligence? If not, (which I contend is the only reasonable position), then when one man tells you you're wrong you can possibly ignore him, but when whole fora are telling you the same thing, *consider the possibility* that you could be wrong. Try to understand why.

I don’t really care. I speak by the power of the Holy Spirit. I am what God made me to be. I will never change and I will never shut up. You on the other hand have the choice to ignore me. I think that’s pretty unlikely, too. And if you haven’t noticed, I’m the red hot topic in just about any forum I enter. Do you realize, I won’t even go into small forums and I rarely if ever post in someone else’s thread. Why? Because I dominate it, and that’s not fair to them. The last time I did this, was a few years ago, and I did it for six months. My blog had thousands of views every month, and each post had like 50 or more responses. I was nowhere nearly as mature of a Christian back then, and I’m older now. I will not stop. We’re just going to have to see where the ride takes us, won’t we?

Quote:Lastly, your objective. You want to save us from hell.

Yes. Absolutely.

Quote:Your approach right now *is not working*.

Yes it is.

Quote:I saw a comment on your blog by one guy saying you had turned him towards atheism. Doesn't it say in Ezekiel somewhere that that'll be taken as *your* crime? You are not saving people from hell, you are sending them there faster (from your p.o.v. - I don't have a hell to worry about). So, change your approach if you do genuinely wish to save more people.

Regards

Morondog (the sexually immoral one).
Well, stay tuned. You’ll read a lot more stuff in the blog comments like that. It’s BS. And I think you know it. Hell, it was probably you.

(26-12-2011 08:45 AM)Harvard Yard Wrote:  This is a humorous thread. Kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. I didn't realize shooting down fallacies would be THIS easy here. Egor, where did you get your education ? (I can't tell from your website..you conveniently left it off, or did I miss it? I had to get out of there, and should have been more thorough.)

I received my B.Sc. in Liberal Arts from Regents College in New York. I got it mostly through independent study courses from BYU, and CLEP Tests, and ACT/PEP tests. I concentrated in sociology and psychology. I have another degree that I won’t mention, because I don’t want to talk about my profession in here.

Quote:And BTW, "Via Divine providence" doesn't make any sense. Do you know what a "Via" is ? Did you mean "Viva" ? Are you talking about an Italian street ?

Via means “by way of.”

Quote:Anyway read this please :

An old cowboy goes into a bar and orders a drink. As he sits there sipping his whiskey, a young lady sits down next to him. She says to him, "I'm a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about women." A little while later, a couple sits down next to the old cowboy and asks him, "Are you a real cowboy?" He replies, "I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a lesbian."

Get it ?

Sure. LOL

Quote:THAT's what's wrong with your "existence requires consciousness" argument. Your PREMISE is false, so your conclusion is false. Do you actually think that if the proof of a deity were THAT simple-minded, and it were seen to have any validity, someone would not have come up with it LONG ago ?

Bishop George Berkeley, 1713. Three Dialogues between Hylas and Philonous, 1713. It’s called “Idealism.”

I simply expound on it.

Quote:Obviously your education in intellectual history is sorely lacking. Since you don't even know any basic logic, (most of us learned that one in grade school), why would you think you have any credibility in ANY field, especially Theology, if you can't even reason through Logic 1-00000001 ? Sorry, I have to say it ...."only in the Deep South". I just bet you like Rick Perry.
You don’t really think you can intellectually bully me do you? You don’t think I see you for the rube that you are? Puh-leez.

Quote:Some of the posters above have tried to get you to think about exactly what you are saying when you say "observation". Do you actually think you are the first to deal with these questions ? You haven't defined your terms. There are COUNTLESS ways a "conscious" being could be an "observer" ? Do you know even 2 ? While you're at it, please also define what is "consciousness", in VERY exact terms, please, and maybe....only maybe, we can go from there.

Sure. I’d be glad to school you in the definition of consciousness. Consciousness is self-awareness, perception and will. We are aware of our own consciousness, but not that of others. We presuppose consciousness when we see the demonstration of apparent will in other things. So, obviously my dog, Athena, is conscious because she demonstrates will.

Observation is a conscious focus on a thing; that is the perception of a thing by a conscious entity.

(26-12-2011 09:27 AM)Harvard Yard Wrote:  BTW, Egor, OBAMA is YOUR legally elected president, and just as much so, as your little list up there. You don't get to pick and choose which laws you decide to follow in this country.

What are you freaking out about? Yes, Barack Obama is the 44th president of the United States. He’s a Democrat and came into office in 2008. And which laws am I not following?

In order to have a National Christian Church, we would have to change or repeal the First Amendment to the Constitution. There are legal ways to do that. If the majority of people want it, it can be done. It probably never will be done, but I would like to see it happen.

Of course, one could argue, why bother? We tend to be a very Christian nation anyway, especially if you include Latter Day Saints in that. We have a National Cathedral, we print “In God We Trust” on our money. Our pledge of Allegiance says, “One nation under God,” Christmas is the biggest holiday of our nation. There are churches literally everywhere, and it’s all voluntary.

I realize atheists think they will gain power, but they won’t, not in the United States. If they every did, there would be a terrible religious backlash that even I would not like to see. Oh, you may win little things like prayer in public school or no religious teaching in public schools or stupid plastic nativity scenes on a Fire Station lawn. But that does nothing. It means nothing. Even Wal-Mart and many other major chains, this year, went back to using the term Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/dc/2...ck/2031726

The public tide is towards religious freedom, not freedom from religion. And what did ending prayer and religion in schools do? Nothing. It started the whole industry of Charter Schools and Private Schools. Now every church has a school attached to it, it seems. It’s a great way for them to make money, and most people consider a religious school education superior to a public school education.

Public schools = drug deals and dumbed-down teaching.
Private schools = uniforms, prayer, and higher grades.
Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2011, 03:23 PM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2011 03:38 PM by Chas.)
RE: Egor's Proof of God
Oh, never mind.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2011, 03:39 PM
RE: Egor's Proof of God
Quote:Aren’t you an atheist, Morondog? What do you care, then, about the beatitudes and the fruits of the spirit? They mean nothing to you. If there is no God, then Jesus was a deluded self-absorbed preacher. Why would any of his teachings matter to you?
You can tell me that I'm wrong and going to hell but I'm not allowed to tell you that you are acting inconsistently with your own Bible? Surely, that makes me that much keener to become a Christian. But even if I did, would I be a good enough Christian for you?

Quote:And if you haven’t noticed, I’m the red hot topic in just about any forum I enter.
Call me crazy, I can't stop picking at a scab. And look who's all humble just like Jesus. You weren't born in a manger by any chance?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
26-12-2011, 03:45 PM
RE: Egor's Proof of God
Existence does not require observation
Also your logic says that God's existence had to be observed by an observer and the god's observer's observer must have been observed by observer whom was observed by an observer...And this continues endlessly.You get the drift.

The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.
-Karl Marx


Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2011, 03:55 PM
RE: Egor's Proof of God
(26-12-2011 03:05 PM)Egor Wrote:  Before I start answering these replies, let me say that this will be my last post in this string. By all means, come back and have the last word. I’ll read it, I’m sure, but I won’t respond after this. I want to start a new post with a new argument for the existence of God, and I think this one has run its course.

You're free to start a new thread, but PLEASE put some content in it this time. This thread was based on a claim about observation that was so subjective and opinionated that 23 pages later we haven't gotten any further or more clarified. And on that note, now that we know Egor isn't trolling, PLEASE don't fill up his threads with games and ad hominem. If you aren't going to respond to his topic, please don't respond. Let's see if we can make some process in this tangled dialectic nightmare.


Quote:Public schools = drug deals and dumbed-down teaching.
Private schools = uniforms, prayer, and higher grades.

This is a ridiculous statement backed by zero facts. Drugs aren't running rampant through our schools unless you count caffeine and energy drinks and teachers are just teachers. Two of my best friends are teachers at public schools and they're smarter than me in their respective subjects.

Also, you think uniforms are a positive thing? Everyone look the same, no individuality, communism ftw kind of thing? You think prayer is a positive thing? Instead of learning or reading or doing virtually anything else, you want our kids to waste time telepathically talking to an imaginary man? And "higher grades?" Of course, they'll get higher grades when they're being tested on religion. That's like being tested on alchemy or astrology. A C- at Harvard is still better than an A+ at St. Luke's Community College.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Buddy Christ's post
26-12-2011, 09:01 PM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2011 09:07 PM by NotSoVacuous.)
RE: Egor's Proof of God
(26-12-2011 12:31 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  Maybe I should explain so you can understand what he meant.

X stands for nothing
Y stands for God

Now for the equation:

X = perfect
Y = perfect
Y = X
God = Nothing

Hope you understand now.


Since Egor is taking a break, I feel I have to touch down on some things I see wrong with everyone's logic here.

This equation would make Immanuel Kant roll over in his grave at how poor of an excuse this was for an "analytic statement/equation".

If Nothing is perfect and God is Perfect, the statement claims that both are perfect. It does not equate to God = Nothing

This would be the equivalent of saying:

X=Red
Y=Red
Y=X
Red Firetruck = Red Cardinal bird

We can clearly say that a firetruck is not a fucking bird.

In other words in analytic equations, adjectives coincide to make a statement true or false based on the adjective, not the subject at hand.

At most you equation has stated that nothing is perfect and god is perfect. It has no proof or validity that either are perfect nor does it claim true that one equates to the other.

Opening your mouth only gives us atheist a bad name. No wonder Christians think they have a leg to stand on.

"We Humans are capable of greatness." -Carl Sagan
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2011, 09:31 PM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2011 09:47 PM by Harvard Yard.)
RE: Egor's Proof of God
The fact that he doesn't see that the only possible response to "what is left is a dark mass" is laughter is symptomatic of the problem here. Can someone please explain to him the definition of *mass* and why something is *dark*. I also am done arguing with someone with no education. His dog Athena is conscious. OMG. See ya.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Harvard Yard's post
26-12-2011, 09:42 PM
RE: Egor's Proof of God
(26-12-2011 09:01 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  This would be the equivalent of saying:

X=Red
Y=Red
Y=X
Red Firetruck = Red Cardinal bird

We can clearly say that a firetruck is not a fucking bird.

In other words in analytic equations, adjectives coincide to make a statement true or false based on the adjective, not the subject at hand.

At most you equation has stated that nothing is perfect and god is perfect. It has no proof or validity that either are perfect nor does it claim true that one equates to the other.

Opening your mouth only gives us atheist a bad name. No wonder Christians think they have a leg to stand on.

For fuck's sake man, it's called a joke.

It's about as "logical" as saying:

NotSoVacuous has no sense of humor.
NotSoVacuous is an atheist.
Therefore atheists have no sense of humor.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Buddy Christ's post
27-12-2011, 02:03 AM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2011 02:53 AM by Filox.)
RE: Egor's Proof of God
Hmmm.... Smile

Funny thing this is. I finally see what the problem here is, took me a while, but I solved it. FEAR. Poor Egor is afraid of us, he is afraid of atheists and atheism. C'mon man, we don't eat babies, that's stupid.

What is wrong with his picture and why he hates atheism is because he sees atheism as a movement, as a political party, as a community. And the difference between any organization, religion and atheists is that while most of people form groups and organizations, most of us are individuals, not connected to any association, or group of people, the only thing we have in common is the lack of belief in God.

So your fear is irrational, it has no foundations, atheism does not exist the way you think Egor. We are not some wild organization that want to destroy your world. We don't care most of the time, only time we care is when people like you are trying to push religion under our nose, for example, if you want that the whole class in a classroom prays before the teacher starts teaching. That is pushing your beliefs onto other people and that is breaking the Constitution of USA. You are free to pray home, in the church, with your friends, nobody cares, nobody will ever tell you not to, just don't force me, my kids or anyone else who does not want that.

If you would just be concerned with yourself and your family you would never have these kind of problems. If someone want to burn in hell, do not try to lecture him, it is his free will, given to him by God, who are you to change what God has given to everyone? Free will, let us decide on our own, what we want, don't push us.

And being friends with atheists is nothing wrong, you do nothing bad there, even if someone does not believe in the things you believe, he can still be a good person, a person to be a friend. You hard stand on this is completely irrational and very bad for your health.

P.S.
I never was a Skinhead, I only hanged out with them, the punkers, metals, all sorts of these alternative, underground people. I was always something else, never belonged there, but they were a fun crew to hang out. A person can learn from them, no matter how they act.

And a Merry Christmas Egor.

[Image: a6505fe8.jpg]
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Filox's post
27-12-2011, 02:09 AM
RE: Egor's Proof of God
Egor is retarded

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like ddrew's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: