Egypt
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17-02-2011, 07:52 PM
RE: Egypt
Are you implying that Domino Theory is taking effect in this area?
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18-02-2011, 10:43 AM
RE: Egypt
Haven't heard of the Domino effect until now ... but if it implies what I think it does , it's possible.
It tends to happen in large crowds , so it may happen with masses of people in different countries similar to individuals.
If corrupt governments get overthrown all the better , but I'm worried that even worse leaders may come to power.These people deserve a break from all the crap they had to take.

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18-02-2011, 05:11 PM
RE: Egypt
(16-02-2011 03:08 AM)shiranl Wrote:  So let's talk when this actually happen, will you? Right now Israel's Jewish population is 80%, the rest is variety of Arabs, Bedouins, Druze, Circassian, Samarians and Bahai's.
You are saying we're aparthide now because you think that in the future the Jewish population in israel will be a minority.
And btw, against all what the rest of the world is thinking- the growth statistics of the Jewish population in Israel are higher then those of the Arabs in Israel. So your assumption is incorrect from its very basis.

No, I'm not saying it's Apartheid now because of what may happen in the future. I'm using the term because what is going on is oppression and subjugation based on religion and ethnicity and it's immoral whether it's done to 80% of the population or 8% of the population. Admittedly the Israel situation is not exactly equivalent to South Africa or even the US during the Jim Crowe era as the Palestinians have plenty of blood on their hands as well, but the fact is that neither side is innocent here and one side (the Israelis) holds most of the weapons.

As for the growth statistics, I'm pretty sure that the Arabs have been growing at a much higher rate then the Israelis for a long time now. There may be a recent spike but in the long term the Jews are losing ground in terms of population.

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19-02-2011, 11:00 AM
RE: Egypt
Defeat of corrupt government + Nobody overseeing the transition of power... historically this leads to problems, most extreme example WWII, most hopeful example USA.
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19-02-2011, 04:10 PM
RE: Egypt
(19-02-2011 11:00 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  Defeat of corrupt government + Nobody overseeing the transition of power... historically this leads to problems, most extreme example WWII, most hopeful example USA.

I don't get the US example - what transition are you referring to ?

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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22-02-2011, 02:29 AM
RE: Egypt
(18-02-2011 05:11 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(16-02-2011 03:08 AM)shiranl Wrote:  So let's talk when this actually happen, will you? Right now Israel's Jewish population is 80%, the rest is variety of Arabs, Bedouins, Druze, Circassian, Samarians and Bahai's.
You are saying we're aparthide now because you think that in the future the Jewish population in israel will be a minority.
And btw, against all what the rest of the world is thinking- the growth statistics of the Jewish population in Israel are higher then those of the Arabs in Israel. So your assumption is incorrect from its very basis.

No, I'm not saying it's Apartheid now because of what may happen in the future. I'm using the term because what is going on is oppression and subjugation based on religion and ethnicity and it's immoral whether it's done to 80% of the population or 8% of the population. Admittedly the Israel situation is not exactly equivalent to South Africa or even the US during the Jim Crowe era as the Palestinians have plenty of blood on their hands as well, but the fact is that neither side is innocent here and one side (the Israelis) holds most of the weapons.

As for the growth statistics, I'm pretty sure that the Arabs have been growing at a much higher rate then the Israelis for a long time now. There may be a recent spike but in the long term the Jews are losing ground in terms of population.

I don't say the situation in Israel is perfect, but it is way better than what you describe and a hell lot of better than the situation in the Arabs countries. Israel has a lot to be improved, no doubt about that, but which country doesn't need to be improved? Give me one name of one country which trits to its minorities completely equal. There is no such thing, weather it be complete discrimination from the government and the society or minimal discrimination like in job employments.
Don't use the term if you are not completely convinced about what is going on here because it is just contributes more to the delegitimization of my country.
In the conditions Israel established, in the conditions Israel had survived for almost 63 years, in the conditions of the variety Israel's society has- Israel has manneged to perserve a democracy in almost unpossible situation- constent war, neighboring countries which doesn't really sympathies our existence, and with a huge vareity in our society- only in the Jewish population we have tens of different ethnicities- all those things combine create possible dictatorship and unpossible democracy. Instead, we accepted the democarcy on May 14th, 1948- as far as my knowledge goes, we are the only democracy who didn't had to fight to get the democracy- and we still are.
After all that- I honestly think Israel is over judged. By you and by most of the world.

So stop crying about the "suffer" the Arabs have here (which, if you ask them, they prefer the "suffer" here than the suffer in their homelands) and start crying about the real suffer, like the one in Darfur (and again- Israel is the only country which accept those refugees within its borders, like we don't have other problems to dill with....)

Check your sources again. .
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23-02-2011, 12:16 AM
RE: Egypt
After several months of attempted negotiations with Israel to try to push them to comply with international law and signed agreements, the U.S. government announced, Tuesday, that it is abandoning efforts to get the Israeli government to comply with the law prohibiting settlements.

According to a representative of the U.S. State Department, the U.S. will continue its negotiations, but will not press Israel to comply with international law banning the transfer of civilians to militarily-occupied land. All settlements are illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention, to which Israel is a signatory, but the Israeli government has ignored this obligation, and has transferred over 500,000 Israeli civilians into settlements constructed on stolen Palestinian land since 1967.

Previously, the U.S. government had offered Israel 20 F-35 fighter jets, which are the newest model of U.S. made fighter jets, in exchange for a six-month settlement freeze. Israel rejected that offer, and demanded that they be allowed to continue their continual expansion of settlements on stolen Palestinian land, even while engaging in 'negotiations' with Palestinian leaders.

Palestinian negotiatiors have long criticized Israel's policy of continuing settlement expansion, with one Palestinian diplomat, Mohammed Shtayeh, telling reporters last week that Israel's decision to allow 600 new housing units in East Jerusalem on illegally confiscated Palestinian land was the "last nail in the coffin of the peace process."

Israeli negotiators have demanded that the Palestinian leadership agree to “recognize Israel as a Jewish state” as a precondition for peace talks – despite the fact that such a recognition would mean the denial of the internationally recognized right of return of Palestinian refugees. This is a concession that Palestinian leaders say they do not have the right to make.

http://ifamericansonlyknew.org/

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
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23-02-2011, 07:17 AM
RE: Egypt
very un biased report you got there.
Only the words from this article show how much hatred they feel towards my country, let alone the website it was taken from.

1. Israel has never transfered its citizens to the Judea and Samaria region, they are choosing to live there, Israel's army is the one to destroy their houses.
2. Stolen Palestinians land from 1967? only this sentence alone doesn't make sense. The lands were occupied from Jorden in 1967, a country we're in peace now and never reclaimed the lands in the peace process with them, unless you suggest Jorden IS Palestine (what makes the creation of another Arab country in those lands really unreasonable), there is no such thing as "stolen Palestinians land from 1967".
3. Well, that just show that 20 fighter jets can't buy our pride, something I guess you are not familiar with.
4. East Jerusalem is part of Jerusalem, our internal and historical capital. It was our capital long before Washington was American. The Palestinians already have a capital- Ramallah.
5.look what we ask and what they ask- we ask only recognition (and it wasn't precondition for peace talks, it was part of the peace talks. The only ones who demanded things before we started to talk are the Palestinians), they ask from us to remove 500,000 people by force, and this is before signing the peace agreements. Sorry, but this is very unreasonable, idiotic and no other country would think of agreeing such thing. The rule is very simple- you want peace? you and I need to settle down about our demands. Israel has settled down enough by freezing for 10 months people's homes and going out from Gaza with no reclaiminations 6 years ago. Why didn't they start talking right away with us? why we needed to beg them to sit and talk for 9 months? I'll tell you why- they don't want to talk, 10 months are too long, so they waitted for 9 months claiming stupid excuses and after one month they had the excuse to bracke the talks off. Very simple. What promise us they won't do it again if we freeze the buildings for 6 months? Nothing, absolutely NOTHING.

Bottom line- I don't care about the Palestinians, and it seems they don't care about them either. It is their interest to have a country, not Israel's. THEY need to beg US to sit and talk with THEM, not vaice versa. I already have a country.
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24-02-2011, 05:20 PM
RE: Egypt
(19-02-2011 04:10 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  
(19-02-2011 11:00 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  Defeat of corrupt government + Nobody overseeing the transition of power... historically this leads to problems, most extreme example WWII, most hopeful example USA.

I don't get the US example - what transition are you referring to ?

From the British rule, the revolutionary war. Nobody held Americas' hand as we established our own government, however if you look at the country now, it is hard to say that is a such a hopeful example.
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25-02-2011, 07:40 AM
RE: Egypt
Relax dude - I'm Romanian , our entire country went from one corrupt government to another.
I think our genes are defective or something .
We freed ourselves from Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman rule.
We were corrupt as monarchy , as a communist country and (still are)as a democratic country.
I get the sentiment.

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