Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
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01-11-2014, 07:30 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 07:24 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  ...

God is not the topic of this thread, atheist thought is being examined here, and its uptimate ramifications... Smile. This has nothing to do with GOD... it has to do with the atheists inability to believe it is NEVER GOOD to abuse a child... you cant change the topic of this thread just because youre uncomfortable with it.

I thought you people weren't afraid to have your belief honestly challenged Wink

Wats wrong? Looks like most of you posting DO have a problem with it.

Facepalm

You, sir or madam, made the topic about god at your first reference to atheism.

What's hard to understand about that?

Drinking Beverage

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01-11-2014, 07:31 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 07:24 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  God is not the topic of this thread, atheist thought is being examined here, and its ultimate ramifications... Smile. This has nothing to do with GOD... it has to do with the atheists inability to believe it is NEVER GOOD to abuse a child... you cant change the topic of this thread just because youre uncomfortable with it.

I thought you people weren't afraid to have your belief honestly challenged Wink

Whats wrong? Looks like most of you posting DO have a problem with it.

Various others have supplied both answers and their reasons for said answers.

Again you're being very imprecise with your language.

Atheism is simply the non belief in any deities. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

What you've done is tack two ideas into one question.

A) Either universal truth exists.

B) Or *Redacted to comply with forum guide-lines* is Sometimes Good.

People HAVE answered to both of these questions. They've even pointed out that putting both of these questions together creates a 'False dilemma'.

So... what about the answers do you think might need more discussions?

Much cheers to all.
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01-11-2014, 07:32 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:26 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I say any abuse of a child is wrong... that's simple enough isn't it?
Lets make this easy and you tell me what types of child abuse you find acceptable and good.

No it isn't. Not at all.
Since you live under a rock, there is currently a famous case. Ever hear of Adrian Peterson ?
He beat his kid with a tree branch. Many do not agree that was abuse.
So do try just a wee bit harder there, big guy.
There's nothing absolute about this at all.
Oh well. Better luck next time.
http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/12/adrian-pet...ild-abuse/

OK, ad hom, and confusion seems to be reigning in your post. What is the title of this thread? But to make things easier we can add beating an innocent baby to death to child rape. One would think youd make a sensitive issue less sensitive if possible by using generic terms. Wink

Got anything beside ad hom? Smile
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01-11-2014, 07:37 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:47 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:43 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Heya, and thanks very much again Smile

One poster has said this "And yes, here's a situation: child abuse is good for people who think it is good. Not for me. How is that a problem now?"

So yes some replies ARE saying this. Here's the point. If something is true without exception, regardless of time, location, circumstance or popular opinion and social construct, It is universally absolutely true. Easy right? The atheists who have spoken up for the most part admit they don't believe in absolute universal moral truth. "It is never good to abuse a child" is a moral absolute, universal truth in my opinion, regardless of any social acceptance or opinion. If one believes there is no exception they believe in absolute universal truth. If they don't believe in universal truth, they are left to explain when child abuse would be deemed "good". I see this as quite a moral dilemma. Several have stated that its ok to those who deem it ok... I just posted one of the quotes, so we cant say this philosophy doesn't exist among atheists, and it is the antithesis of the opinion of 90 percent of the world.

For these reasons and more, I believe this is worth taking an honest second look to consider the ramifications...

No more time to reply currently, sorry.

The immediate point that comes across is that the use of language of yourself is not... consistent.

Also, your proposed definition has since been expanded upon from its original posting.

Also, you are not replying to certain posts, even when asked to.

Much cheers to all.

My definition has not changed whatsoever. Atheists cannot say with conviction that child rape is NEVER GOOD. Not if they apply it as an absolute truth that is universally true. This IS the topic. This is not my fault, so people (not you) can attack the messenger all they like, it doesn't change the truth, and In the opinion of 90 percent of the world, the atheistic lack of conviction here is appalling.

Also this is one person who has a life answering how ever many of you there are, some of you empty handed were it not for ad hom Wink So if you think I missed something point it out and ill answer it so long as it is on topic. Smile
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01-11-2014, 07:39 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 07:32 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  ... Ad hom....

I do not think that word means what you think it means, Consider

Much cheers to all.
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01-11-2014, 07:40 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 08:06 PM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  Edit: Can anybody else see this post? It's not showing up in the thread for me. Edit 2.0: Fixed it
(31-10-2014 07:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
Thank you again Bucky. Got me to reread this (and assuming he's being honest) I can reiterate what the problem is and be clearer.
If we don't understand what you mean by "abuse." Saying "any form of abuse" doesn't communicate anything.

Define "abuse." Define "good."

(31-10-2014 07:51 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  No worries.

I, however (I am making an assumption), am more of the belief that the original poster is doing nothing more than creating a "Dog wagging exercise" so as to create controversy etc for their own potential amusement. Blush

Which is a sort of horrible thing to say... but an honest portrayal of my thoughts.
It's not horrible if it turns out to be true. I'm leaning towards agreeing at the moment.

Make it easy and let the word rape in the title remove any confusion Smile

And tell me whether or not you believe it is universally and absolutely true that it is never GOOD to rape a child, regardless of opinion or popular consensus.
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01-11-2014, 07:43 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:51 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  I, however (I am making an assumption), am more of the belief that the original poster is doing nothing more than creating a "Dog wagging exercise" so as to create controversy etc for their own potential amusement. Blush

Which is a sort of horrible thing to say... but an honest portrayal of my thoughts.

Much cheers to all.

I find the subject appalling... I find the fact that the atheist cant believe child rape to be universally and absolutely wrong to be even more appalling... to not know wrong from right.

One IS ALLOWED to disagree with your philosophy when 90 percent of the world would condemn this thought, and you should take an honest look at what OTHERS think of your philosophy
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01-11-2014, 07:48 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 08:06 PM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  Edit: Can anybody else see this post? It's not showing up in the thread for me. Edit 2.0: Fixed it
(31-10-2014 07:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
Thank you again Bucky. Got me to reread this (and assuming he's being honest) I can reiterate what the problem is and be clearer.
If we don't understand what you mean by "abuse." Saying "any form of abuse" doesn't communicate anything.

Define "abuse." Define "good."

(31-10-2014 07:51 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  No worries.

I, however (I am making an assumption), am more of the belief that the original poster is doing nothing more than creating a "Dog wagging exercise" so as to create controversy etc for their own potential amusement. Blush

Which is a sort of horrible thing to say... but an honest portrayal of my thoughts.
It's not horrible if it turns out to be true. I'm leaning towards agreeing at the moment.

I would define abuse in the context of this discussion as the abuses involved with child rape. Good, I would assign the standard understanding of good.

Then I would say the abuse of a child is absolutely and universally NEVER good...

The atheist has to say, no I disagree, or sometimes it is good if they do not believe in absolute universal moral truth. This is a very valid complaint, and not overpuffed at all, as you can see some have already excused it, saying its good for some. Others respond "I don't know" which I find equally appalling.

Bet still I don't find the atheist appalling... just the end result of atheistic belief.
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01-11-2014, 07:51 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 07:37 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  My definition has not changed whatsoever.

Your word usage and sentence structures have changed with varying posts. Hence what I wrote.

(01-11-2014 07:37 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Atheists cannot say with conviction that *Redacted to comply with forum guide-lines* is NEVER GOOD.

I identify as an atheist and I post that *Redacted to comply with forum guide-lines* is NEVER GOOD.

Ta-DAA!

(01-11-2014 07:37 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Not if they apply it as an absolute truth that is universally true.

The many problems with this port of the conversation have been pointed out to you.

(01-11-2014 07:37 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  This IS the topic.

Actually, as I have mentioned, these are the topicS. Your opening post/position has two parts.

(01-11-2014 07:37 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  This is not my fault, so people (not you) can attack the messenger all they like,

You...um... posted the initial statement.... In other words, you started the fight/conversation. People have already and multiple times pointed out the controversy of your opening post.

Since you KEEP posting *Redacted to comply with forum guide-lines* I can understand WHY people keep feeling the need to point out to you the many reasons why it is wrong.

(01-11-2014 07:37 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  it doesn't change the truth, and In the opinion of 90 percent of the world

Okay... there are two parts to this sentence.

A)....It doesn't change the truth,

B) ....In the opinion...

So... is it true.... or is it an opinion? Consider

Do you see my point of your language NOT being clear or concise?

(01-11-2014 07:37 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  the atheistic lack of conviction here is appalling.

You are getting responses to what you are posting. Given time zone differences and cultural differences, there is that.

(01-11-2014 07:37 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Also this is one person who has a life answering how ever many of you there are, some of you empty handed were it not for ad hom Wink

Sorry... this sentence makes no sense to me. Could you rephrase?

(01-11-2014 07:37 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  So if you think I missed something point it out and ill answer it so long as it is on topic. Smile

Please answer the question about your opening statement being a 'False dilemma'.
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01-11-2014, 07:52 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 08:18 PM)Nurse Wrote:  And for shits and giggles, I probably could come up with some scenarios where it's ok to kill sweet little kitties and puppies. But I'll spare everyone.

First of all, the bible doesn't condone what lot did nor would i, second of all that isn't the topic...

And THIS is exactly my complaint against atheist philosophy... YOU CAN find a justification for child rape, whereas I cannot.

.
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