Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
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01-11-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 07:43 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I find the subject appalling... I find the fact that the atheist cant believe child rape to be universally and absolutely wrong to be even more appalling... to not know wrong from right.

One IS ALLOWED to disagree with your philosophy when 90 percent of the world would condemn this thought, and you should take an honest look at what OTHERS think of your philosophy

Dear sir/madam.

If you cast that aspersion at me at all or again I shall be most displeased.

I have been nothing but cordial, honest and forthright with yourself. Slander myself again and I shall hence forth treat you accordingly.
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01-11-2014, 07:56 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 08:29 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Is the act you call child abuse absolutely the same act, the same degree of pain, the same punch, the same excessive spanking ? No it's absolutely not.

It varies from case to case.
You want to label something that varies as being absolutely the same thing.

I can judge an act that is harmful to a child and then look at the circumstances surrounding how the child was harmed.
Examples - a child that is 6 yrs old throws a rock into a crowd of kids on the playground. One of the kids is struck in the eye and has a bruise.
An adult opens a door and accidentally hits a child in the nose.
An adult pinches a kids arm everyday he or she is late to class.
A child pinches another child with some tweezers he brought from home and then begins to taunt that child every day with something causing harm, both physical and mental.

Absolute truth doesn't define all of these actions as absolutely the same, so you can't use absolute truth to judge anything.

The idea of absolute truth is just an illusion of words to make it appear as if you have a base of morality when you really don't.

And abuse as the title indicates, in the case of rape... this is not ALWAYS absolutely and universally wrong? Or is it sometimes the right thing to do in your opinion?
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01-11-2014, 08:02 AM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2014 08:37 AM by Wolfbitn.)
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 09:52 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:15 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  This means I can say with assurance and conviction that no matter the time, no matter the place, no matter the circumstance, no matter if anyone agrees with it or not, Child Abuse and Rape is ALWAYS WRONG... but you cant say this with conviction because it is an absolute universal truth. Location in time and space mean nothing... child abuse and rape is not good. Circumstances mean nothing, social acceptance means nothing except the perps are WRONG if they deem it to be a good thing.

Problem 1: In a universe without children, would child-abuse being wrong still be an 'absolute truth'?

Problem 2: You lack imagination.

You obviously wouldn't think so, but yes of course it would... humans may have lived in the past or may be in the future... it would ALWAYS be wrong.

Quote:Are there scenarios where child abuse could be the lesser evil, or perhaps even a good? Certainty, just like how killing another person under the right circumstances can be. What if the child is abusing another younger child, and the only way to stop them is physically? What if that child is about to kill you or someone else?

Now lets get really creative. Say you are being held hostage by a mad genius, and he will let you go, but you have to make a choice. You captor has developed the cure for cancer, and he will share it with you and the world, provided you play his game; and he wants you to assault a defenseless child. What is the temporary well-being of that one child measured against the suffering that will be both alleviated and prevented the world over?



Well it seems YOU are advocating the rape of a child... Youd rather not suck it up and die than rape a child to save your own ass?


Quote:The fact that we can even contemplate such scenarios means that you've already failed.

No it means that Im right... you can justify child rape just because of your philosophy. It also makes you more than just a huge fail, in justifying child rape for your own selfish gain.

Quote:Just because you're too color blind to see the world in anything other than black and white doesn't mean the rest of us are obliged to be just as blind and ignorant as you.

Youre right... it IS black and white with me, and Im damned proud of it.
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01-11-2014, 08:07 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 02:59 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:59 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  In other words, you don't believe it is universally true that child abuse is wrong... which as you see is my beef with atheism... and 90 percent of the world disagrees with you heartily.

(31-10-2014 05:59 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  So you don't think they are simply "wrong" and that it is universally true... which world do you think a child would feel safer in... the one that said it is ALWAYS wrong, or the one that says its sometimes good?

See this is where you are deliberately equivocating and trolling. By saying that I do not believe in a universal absolute morality you are now trying to make it look like I personally approve of child abuse. You are using emotional blackmail to argue your point rather than relying on the strength of your argument.

Of course a child is safer in the west. But that doesn't disagree with what I previously said. Of course I abhor child abuse but that also doesn't agree with what I previously said.

We each have our own morality and that is based upon a mix of nature and nurture. Nature because of our species and nurture because of how we were raised.

Well then we are coming CLOSER to agreement... BUT.. If you still don't believe it is universally and absolutely true that child abuse is not good, you have to come up with a situation where it IS good. Why one couldn't say within their own heart that it doesn't matter ones opinion, time or location, it is ALWAYS WITHOUT FAILE WRONG to rape and abuse a child
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01-11-2014, 08:10 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 07:30 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 07:24 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  ...

God is not the topic of this thread, atheist thought is being examined here, and its uptimate ramifications... Smile. This has nothing to do with GOD... it has to do with the atheists inability to believe it is NEVER GOOD to abuse a child... you cant change the topic of this thread just because youre uncomfortable with it.

I thought you people weren't afraid to have your belief honestly challenged Wink

Wats wrong? Looks like most of you posting DO have a problem with it.

Facepalm

You, sir or madam, made the topic about god at your first reference to atheism.

What's hard to understand about that?

Drinking Beverage

Where do you see God in the title? This is about YOUR philosophy... what, you cant talk about YOUR philosophy? Not allowed to scrutinize it? You think your 10 percent to be beyond scrutiny?

Now... you tell me, when do you justify child rape as being GOOD if it is not universally and absolutely WRONG. Smile
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01-11-2014, 08:11 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
Quote:You obviouslt wouldn't think so, but yes of course it would... humans may have lived in the past or mae be in the future... it would ALWAYS be wrong.

If there are no humans then there is no one to hold values, and thus no one to act morally or immorally. The question becomes nonsensical. The universe DOES NOT CARE one shit, people do.

Quote:Youre right... it IS black and white with me, and Im damned proud of it.

I tend to agree that there is black and white, and will defend that. But your justification is simply "because god says so" which is amazingly weak. If you're going to try to justify an absolute or objective morality saying "because some ruler says so" is not a good defense. What if he tells you (as your book says he does from time to time) to kill babies? T rip open pregnant women? Then your claim that killing babies is always wrong goes out the window.
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01-11-2014, 08:13 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 10:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Many cultures practiced child sacrifice, including the early Hebrews. They certainly thought it was not only ok, but a good and moral thing to do.
In fact, they even had a myth in which ole Abe was asked to burn up his kiddo for Abe's god. They seem to have thought that was a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Oh oh. Back to the drawing board.

You've got the story wrong... But whats left is when do YOU think child abuse is GOOD if you don't think it to be universally WRONG? Give me a scenario do illustrate your philosophy

.
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01-11-2014, 08:15 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 07:39 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 07:32 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  ... Ad hom....

I do not think that word means what you think it means, Consider

Much cheers to all.

Sure Christians are just idiots you know... you 10 percent are the only ones that know anything... like its not always wrong in the atheist opinion, to rape a child Wink

Us 90 percent are just too stupid to know that Wink
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01-11-2014, 08:19 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 08:10 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  ...

Where do you see God in the title? This is about YOUR philosophy... what, you cant talk about YOUR philosophy? Not allowed to scrutinize it? You think your 10 percent to be beyond scrutiny?

Now... you tell me, when do you justify child rape as being GOOD if it is not universally and absolutely WRONG. Smile

All I see is a repeated assertion and you offer nothing to support it.

The first line of your OP mentioned atheism... hence YOU made this a 'god' topic.

If you want to backtrack away from that, that's fine. And so, if you want to know about my philosophy, why not ask me? Or you could read the 1,000 posts on here where I write about it and indeed change it when successfully challenged.

But you haven't responded to an earlier question of mine... What makes you think that this Universe or any other gives a toss what we humans do to each other?

If you can demonstrate that it does, I will sign up to your position.

Thumbsup

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01-11-2014, 08:20 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 08:15 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Sure Christians are just idiots you know... you 10 percent are the only ones that know anything... like its not always wrong in the atheist opinion, to rape a child Wink

Us 90 percent are just too stupid to know that Wink

If you continue to attempt to 'Rattle my cage' or 'Pull my chain' I shall thence treat yourself accordingly.

Perhaps answering the questions of my previous posts would be more productive?

Much cheers to all.
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