Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
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31-10-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 05:46 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:44 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  I can assure you, no one in here thinks that it is EVER good to abuse a child. But you knew that already, didn't you.

Yes by your social standard... but do you believe it is universally and absolutely true despite public opinion? Do you believe those who SAY its good are simply wrong and that there is a higher truth that is bigger than society, and true in and of itself? If you do you believe in absolute moral universal truth

I don't know how many times I need to say this for you to understand it, but false dilemma.

There is no "higher truth". There doesn't need to be. Someone can simply be wrong.

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
-Guybrush Threepwood-
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31-10-2014, 05:51 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 05:43 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:34 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Im not here to hurt you... Im here to talk to you. I haven't treated anyone condescendingly, but that's all iv received...

But you claimed that us telling you that you did not understand your sources was condescending. Even though you really did not understand them and claimed they said something completely different. And when challenged multiple times to quote the paragraph where the article said what you claimed it did you were unable to. We weren't being condescending, we were just telling the truth.

If we were being condescending we'd say something like this:

"It's OK, we understand that it can be difficult to grasp the concept that 'I have' can be contracted to 'I', an apostrophe and a 've'"

So are you ALL in the habit of breaking forum rules by talking about topics other than the topic of the thread youre posting in?

Do you believe it is universally and absolutely moral truth that it is ALWAYS wrong to abuse a child, or do you agree with me that absolute moral truth universally exists despite public opinion?
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31-10-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
How is my opinion that child abuse is bad universally objective truth?
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31-10-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 05:45 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Find me a single atheist that believes in absolute universal moral truths... Youre not my first bunch, Iv talked to thousands of atheists Wink

So... do you agree with this statement or disagree? "Child abuse is NEVER GOOD"?

Regardless of what an atheist responds to the Merits of Paedophilia (discussion about it is against the forum rules by the way, link at the bottom), it will still only be their opinion and not an absolute universal moral truth.

If it were an absolute universal moral truth that child abuse was bad then it would not be common place in certain Islamic cultures to have forced marriages to pre-pubescent girls.

So your question is pointless. (I'm off to bed now.)

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...d-Behavior
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31-10-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 05:54 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:45 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Find me a single atheist that believes in absolute universal moral truths... Youre not my first bunch, Iv talked to thousands of atheists Wink

So... do you agree with this statement or disagree? "Child abuse is NEVER GOOD"?

Regardless of what an atheist responds to the Merits of Paedophilia (discussion about it is against the forum rules by the way, link at the bottom), it will still only be their opinion and not an absolute universal moral truth.

In other words, you don't believe it is universally true that child abuse is wrong... which as you see is my beef with atheism... and 90 percent of the world disagrees with you heartily.

Quote:If it were an absolute universal moral truth that child abuse was bad then it would not be common place in certain Islamic cultures to have forced marriages to pre-pubescent girls.

So you don't think they are simply "wrong" and that it is universally true... which world do you think a child would feel safer in... the one that said it is ALWAYS wrong, or the one that says its sometimes good?
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31-10-2014, 06:02 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
If you would like to talk intelligently about morality I'm a moral absolutist and an atheist. I would love to discuss it. However you don't seem interested in that, only in trolling and spouting your garbage.
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31-10-2014, 06:03 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2014 06:09 PM by Peebothuhul.)
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
Hello! Big Grin

Sorry am late, just got up and different time zones and all. *Waves*

(31-10-2014 05:51 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  .........Do you believe it is universally and absolutely moral truth that it is ALWAYS wrong to *Redacted so as to follow forum guide-lines*,

No, it is NOT an absolute moral truth.

(31-10-2014 05:51 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  .... Or do you agree with me that absolute moral truth universally exists despite public opinion?

No, I do not agree with you that absolute moral truth exists.


The world at large is not made up in binary. it is not black and white. It does NOT consist of 'Either/or' statements.

Adults understand that there are many varied shades of grey present in the real world. I believe neurosciences have done studies to show that this faculty to see things BEYOND black and white only really develops after the age of five in humans.

Hope that helps on clearing up our differences.

Edit: Upon further reflection. Perhaps you (Wolfbitn) should change the second part of your opening comment/statement to something other... like "Killing kitties" or"Drowning puppies".

Of course, as has been pointed out, a theists supposed basis for absolute moral truths already kills children, kittens and puppies... So, there's that.

Unless... perchance... you are seeking nothing other than to stoke the fires of indignation?

Much cheers to all.
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31-10-2014, 06:03 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
Just say we are all going to hell and gonna burn. Be done with it alreadyDrinking Beverage

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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31-10-2014, 06:06 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 05:15 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  This is my last thread... and the reason the first 2 were used as a base... Here's my beef with Atheism... aside from the fact they don't seem to be as receptive to critical thought as they say they are, and some of them seem a bit paranoid charging someone with trolling simply because they disagree and want to discuss it...

You don't believe in universal absolute truths. This was the reason for the 2nd thread... to demonstrate that you don't with your own words.

This means I can say with assurance and conviction that no matter the time, no matter the place, no matter the circumstance, no matter if anyone agrees with it or not, Child Abuse and Rape is ALWAYS WRONG... but you cant say this with conviction because it is an absolute universal truth. Location in time and space mean nothing... child abuse and rape is not good. Circumstances mean nothing, social acceptance means nothing except the perps are WRONG if they deem it to be a good thing.

Since the atheist doesn't believe in universal absolute truth... you cant say this as I can and hold to it as a conviction. If you were to say "Child abuse is NEVER GOOD"... you would be admitting to an absolute truth, which you claim doesn't exist.

I haven't read your other thread because it's Halloween today and I'm high on candy.

Specifically, you say "child abuse and rape is never good". You need to read a history book. The age of consent for girls during biblical times was 12 years old. Today that would be considered child abuse and rape yet at that time a 12 or 13 year old girl was allowed (!) to marry. In parts of the world today 12 and 13 year old girls are married yet Christians rise up in arms against this and call it child abuse.

Rape was considered fine and dandy 2000 to 3000 years ago if the rapist was of a higher social status. If the rapist was on a lower social scale they might be brought up on charges. So where the hell is your absolute truth? What is true today wasn't at all true 100 or 3000 years ago. If you go way back to pre-Biblical societies gay sex wasn't considered immoral, except again, if the perpetrator was of a lower status and the receiver was in a higher social class. The other way around though, was ok. Some animals were ok to have sex with but others weren't. Who decided this? Who knows. But now people are sent to jail for having sex with animals. So where's your absolute truth.

These are supposedly universal truths today but they weren't universal truths 3000 years ago. Truths have evolved with advances in societies and secularism.

One other thing. I hate when people write out the word "truth" with a capital T such as "Truth". Christians do this a lot because they want to make it god-like. That's a bunch of shit and it annoys me no end. It just a word and it doesn't need a capital T.

Now where's that Peppermint Patty.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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31-10-2014, 06:07 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 05:59 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:54 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Regardless of what an atheist responds to the Merits of Paedophilia (discussion about it is against the forum rules by the way, link at the bottom), it will still only be their opinion and not an absolute universal moral truth.

In other words, you don't believe it is universally true that child abuse is wrong... which as you see is my beef with atheism... and 90 percent of the world disagrees with you heartily.

Quote:If it were an absolute universal moral truth that child abuse was bad then it would not be common place in certain Islamic cultures to have forced marriages to pre-pubescent girls.

So you don't think they are simply "wrong" and that it is universally true... which world do you think a child would feel safer in... the one that said it is ALWAYS wrong, or the one that says its sometimes good?

Whether it's a universal truth or not, atheism has nothing to do with it.

It's not a matter of "always" and "sometimes", it's a matter of "where" and "who". It's the people who define whether it's wrong or right. You will meet people who think it is right.

Atheism has nothing to do with it. If a child grew up in a society of atheists, or at least freethinkers, there would be no need to address such an issue, since they would be against child abuse.

Atheists do not believe in universal truth =/= Atheists advocate for child abuse

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